Originally Posted by huzaifa47

2 Times a Day(morning+evening). 10 Times a week(assuming I work on Weekends or Go out or Do other stuff, Its fair to include the weekends since we are not considering repeated trips to home or work during weekdays or other trips not covered by transfer)

10*4=40 Times a month
40*8= 320 Times a year

Now we assume 3125 students take the same minimal commuting route as me 320*3125= Break Even=1,000,000 Happy?

Lol...no wonder the MSU is so mismanaged..they'd rather pull numbers out of their butts then actually have a statistic study. Don't worry...when your minds already made up , theres no need for a silly little thing called facts.

Originally Posted by MDCL

Lol...no wonder the MSU is so mismanaged..they'd rather pull numbers out of their butts then actually have a statistic study. Don't worry...when your minds already made up , theres no need for a silly little thing called facts.

Well I would like you to tell me HOW exactly the MSU should be able to carry out a study as complex as this. We can't say oh "tick how many times a week you take the bus" and constitute that as an valid research endeavor. Plus its only you and your trolling ways that has an issue with it. Even if maths and common sense has defeated you you are now using the silly little: "Prove me the actual numbers argument" that I 100% knew you would resort to and find a way to place the blame on someone else(aka the MSU). Quit wasting everyone's time here; If this deal was such a stinker why would we lobby every year to keep it and still consider it a steal even after consistent price updates every year?

I'm done with wasting my time proving anything further to you, if you still think more then 3125 students don't take the bus; I can't really help you with comprehending that! Have a good day

Originally Posted by huzaifa47

You are a Friedman School of Economics Capitalist aka No Government Intervention. People who subscribe to this are Usually VERY Right Wing ; This also constitutes American foreign policy over the years.

Actually Friedman advocated for much more governmental control than I would find necessary, I'd self identify much closer with Mises or Hayek. (While the right wing tends to push for the government having no to little control over the market, they tend to push for having strict control over social values. I believe the government should have no to little control over either).

Originally Posted by huzaifa47

That's a bit of an Econ FAIL. We do not know the reservation value for students and at which point they will buy a car. Increase Congestion; their debt and other headaches and reduce the overall move towards sustainable public transport and the positive economic value of it. Plus the hardship suffered by students who can't afford the $200 monthly pass($200+$380 rent=$580 is more then what I earn at work right now!) who have to walk everyday.

In economics you cant say A+B=C there are sooo many things that you have to consider/quantify!

Its obviously a bit simplified, but I don't think my assumptions are invalid. While we don't know at which point the bus fee would become high enough to warrant someone buying a car, I'm pretty sure that we can assume that a move from a $100 annual fee to a $200 annual fee would not tip the scales enough to make the average student find paying insurance, gas, etc more desirable.

It might however make a student think that walking or paying the $2.40 per ride is a better option, and shift the equilibrium each year until fees increase much higher, but I don't think that would happen. $200 is the high end of a possible fee increase based on an opt out option, assuming that a bus pass is favourable to a majority of students (i.e as long as +50% of students want a bus pass, the lost revenue would be less than 50%. Therefore fees would not need to go up by more than double. If a large majority of students, say 75%, would prefer a bus pass prices would increase by much less, lessening the chance of a majorly shifting equilibrium).[/quote]

Originally Posted by A.Marlowe

Actually Friedman advocated for much more governmental control than I would find necessary, I'd self identify much closer with Mises or Hayek. (While the right wing tends to push for the government having no to little control over the market, they tend to push for having strict control over social values. I believe the government should have no to little control over either).

That is an interestingly confusing interpretation of Friedman :S Not at all in parallel with what I read and believe is the popular application of his teachings! He teaches pure democracy with absolutely no intervention :S Are you talking about U.S foreign policy? That wouldn't constitute what you are trying to say because in the long run USA envisioned a no intervention market.

Its obviously a bit simplified, but I don't think my assumptions are invalid. While we don't know at which point the bus fee would become high enough to warrant someone buying a car, I'm pretty sure that we can assume that a move from a $100 annual fee to a $200 annual fee would not tip the scales enough to make the average student find paying insurance, gas, etc more desirable.

It might however make a student think that walking or paying the $2.40 per ride is a better option, and shift the equilibrium each year until fees increase much higher, but I don't think that would happen. $200 is the high end of a possible fee increase based on an opt out option, assuming that a bus pass is favourable to a majority of students (i.e as long as +50% of students want a bus pass, the lost revenue would be less than 50%. Therefore fees would not need to go up by more than double. If a large majority of students, say 75%, would prefer a bus pass prices would increase by much less, lessening the chance of a majorly shifting equilibrium).

Based on alottt of assumptions :S Plus my spidey sense says the 50% want it would only reduce revenue by 50% logic has issues; I'm tooo tired to write up/articulate why :S

Plus we are saying going from $100 a year to $200 a month! which means $1600 a year :S How does that even make any sense?

Originally Posted by MDCL

Well then, I'm looking forward to you advocating on behalf of the McMaster Go commuters for directing a portion of the HSR fees collected to subsidizing the GO student pass.

After all, defining global citizens to be Mac students who live within the reaches of the HSR would be quite an oxymoron, wouldn't it?

That would be impossible, since the fee collected is 100% at-cost. In other words, 100% of the HSR fee goes to the HSR.

Originally Posted by huzaifa47

That is an interestingly confusing interpretation of Friedman :S Not at all in parallel with what I read and believe is the popular application of his teachings! He teaches pure democracy with absolutely no intervention :S Are you talking about U.S foreign policy? That wouldn't constitute what you are trying to say because in the long run USA envisioned a no intervention market.

From what I read he thought that government should play a role in managing interest rates rather than letting markets decide them, for one example. He also believed that the Federal Reserve should slowly increase the money supply via controlled inflation.

I'd also say that US policy has been far from non-interventionist, domestic or foreign.

Based on alottt of assumptions :S Plus my spidey sense says the 50% want it would only reduce revenue by 50% logic has issues; I'm tooo tired to write up/articulate why :S

Plus we are saying going from $100 a year to $200 a month! which means $1600 a year :S How does that even make any sense?[/quote]

I think we somehow got mixed up, I was never talking about $200 a month. I'm not sure where that number came from. I was suggesting that if indeed a majority of students want the HSR pass from the student fees, the worst that could happen by an opt out would be the doubling of those fees to make up for lost revenue by the people who opted out. So $100 a year payed by 100 students at worst becomes $200 a year payed by 50 students. (Either way the HSR makes $10, 000, but the more likely out come would be $125 payed by 80 students).

^^Obvious hypothetical numbers.

$125-200 is still a great deal for 8 months of unlimited bus rides, and is much better than the $79 dollars that it would other wise cost per month (I believe that is the price quoted of a monthly pass for HSR, too tired to check right now). And it has the benefit of not forcing people to pay for a service they don't use.

I like how a thread about the HSR pass has derailed into a debate on U.S. foreign policy, Economics, the MSU, the government, theft etc.

Leave it to students, lol.

The HSR bus pass is perhaps the greatest thing the MSU has done. My only complaints are on the HSR side; I am always late for my 8:30 am class because 3 buses are full by the time they get to my location. I have to be at the bus stop a full two hours before to get to school on time, rather than only an hour. The worst part is I live in Hamilton Centre. Things could be worse, but it kind of sucks considering I would actually be able to walk to McMaster before a bus could fit me in.

Originally Posted by Goce

The worst part is I live in Hamilton Centre. Things could be worse, but it kind of sucks considering I would actually be able to walk to McMaster before a bus could fit me in.

As a random advice: You can possibly try the 52 Dundas or Delaware 5B from Gore Park and get off at Main?

I like the HSR bus pass. Every student should be taking advantage of the bus pass. It's a great thing to take a break from studies and explore Hamilton.

Wasn't the Museum thing for undergrads put in place already?

Originally Posted by jhan523

Wasn't the Museum thing for undergrads put in place already?

Yes, it's in place... hopefully everyone gets out and sees the museums. They're all free for us!

Every student should take advantage of the bus pass. Consider yourselves lucky... we're one of the few Universities that actually has this deal for students.

Originally Posted by Taunton

Yes, it's in place... hopefully everyone gets out and sees the museums. They're all free for us!

Every student should take advantage of the bus pass. Consider yourselves lucky... we're one of the few Universities that actually has this deal for students.

What Museum thing? o_o

Why is the bus any different from us paying tuition which leads to bursaries for students demonstrating financial need?

If it helps you sleep at night, pretend the $100 goes to some other bullshit Mac Supplementary fee, and Mac is choosing to distribute the money to students in need (ie. in need of taking the bus). It's not like we're not getting stolen blind by Mac in the first place with all these fees.

It's really the same thing.

Originally Posted by lawleypop

What Museum thing? o_o

All of the public museums in hamilton, plus the canadian football hall of fame, the warplane heritage museum, the art gallery of hamilton are all free with your student card.

Also, you can see the Hamilton Philharmonic Orchestra for $10 as a student!

Please, go out and use this! If you don't, the city will take it away, and we'll probably never get it again!

Originally Posted by Taunton

All of the public museums in hamilton, plus the canadian football hall of fame, the warplane heritage museum, the art gallery of hamilton are all free with your student card.

Also, you can see the Hamilton Philharmonic Orchestra for $10 as a student!

Please, go out and use this! If you don't, the city will take it away, and we'll probably never get it again!

Awesome. This is the type of stuff I don't mind paying for.

How do you know if a museum is public?