I'm not exactly sure if this is the right area to post this thread - though this is a question that I as a First year am trying to resolve so I can rest easier at night and I was hoping that someone who maybe knew the studies that I'm going through, perhaps already having done them or are pursuing similar paths as I am could answer this.

I'm taking Social Sciences and am hoping to get into Social Psychology Honours in my 2nd year, although it's a Limited course, I'm still trying to get into it. My question revolves around whether or not people think it's plausible or to let me know if my path sounds grounded enough.

I'm hoping that AFTER Social Psychology, that I pursue a Graduates program to become a Counselling Psychologist. I want to pursue my dream job of having my own office and help counsel people of their problems, etc. (Though am sure contract work will be the first step or apprenticeship before that dream comes true, course). What I want to know beyond the inquiry above, is whether or not someone thinks that me chasing Social Psychology would permit me to chasing this Graduates program, or by me taking it, it'd lead me towards 'Social Psychology' and I won't be able to curve my way into such a program? I had an instructor in College, in my Positive Psychology class tell me she took 'Psychology Honours' here at McMaster before it turned into a 3 year program and that she pursued Counselling Psychology at McGills, so I wanted to similarly follow her lead a bit. Since I know what she's done is where I wish to go.

This kind of question has been nagging the back of my mind for a long time with scepticism, any help would be appreciated.

I think if you're serious about going to graduate school, you're better off going into PNB in undergrad as it opens up more options for you in case you change your interests during your undergrad. I'm not trying to step on Social Psych (I have friends in the program), but I'm just basing this off of what I know of their program and what I've heard from professors in the psychology department. Our professors frequently slam the social psychology program for its approach and lack of "seriousness".

You get more opportunities to work independently in the field in PNB. If you're interested in working with people, you might be interested in a practicuum, for example, where you work with patients in mental health one-on-one. This opportunity doesn't exist in social psychology.

I encourage you to speak to Ann Hollingshead, the academic advisor for PNB, if you're unsure about what path you should take to get to counselling psychology and whether PNB is the right path for you. Her office is on the first floor off the psych building and you can find her contact info here.

Originally Posted by ooburii

I think if you're serious about going to graduate school, you're better off going into PNB in undergrad as it opens up more options for you in case you change your interests during your undergrad. I'm not trying to step on Social Psych (I have friends in the program), but I'm just basing this off of what I know of their program and what I've heard from professors in the psychology department. Our professors frequently slam the social psychology program for its approach and lack of "seriousness".

You get more opportunities to work independently in the field in PNB. If you're interested in working with people, you might be interested in a practicuum, for example, where you work with patients in mental health one-on-one. This opportunity doesn't exist in social psychology.

I encourage you to speak to Ann Hollingshead, the academic advisor for PNB, if you're unsure about what path you should take to get to counselling psychology and whether PNB is the right path for you. Her office is on the first floor off the psych building and you can find her contact info here.

Thanks, although I'd see if I can look into that. It was the program I was looking at a LOT but was thinking it wasn't right for me due to the depth of 'Science' is involved, it felt like it was more Clinical and Research oriented than Social-oriented. Which made me think it may not be for me. Still remains a major conflict in my mind... cause, if I REALLY go in the PNB Honours direction, I'd need a Math. It seems strangely over-demanding by my perspective with subjects that to me are redundancies. It makes me think it's a path I'd go if I were seeking Clinical or Neurology rather than Counsel-work, as Social Psychology is very similar in practice and does not require as much in the form of content or demand.

McGills for instance in the prerequisites: http://www.mcgill.ca/edu-ecp/program...ellingpsych/ma

It doesn't even ask for 'Math' like Algebra, Scientific Computing, Physics or Life Sciences.

http://www.mcgill.ca/edu-ecp/sites/m...insguide_0.pdf

^ A detailed Pre-Admission Academic Checklist.

and for that one instance program/Graduates wise, it sounds perfect and is a Non-Thesis program to boot strangely.

Unsure if I'm really missing something, or something is going over my head that would cause a dead-end in my path in my undergraduate choice, but this is why I worry. I had seen a first year student advisor but she didn't really help me out in affirming what would work and what wouldn't work.

"in case you change your interests during your undergrad"

This won't happen, I'm old enough to know what I'm sticking with It's going to be a Counselling route - it's just I want to be counselling trauma, depression, stressors, people with problems that are not so much a clinical or mental-health specific, diseases or the like (or kids). Which is why I felt Social Psychology was a step in the right direction since its general 'discipline description' involved things that run around what I feel is what I wish more or less (Just it doesn't feel refined to the absolute T)

Originally Posted by Neco

This won't happen, I'm old enough to know what I'm sticking with

I'm going to quote you right now, and future you in 5 years is going to decide to flip through your post history one gloomy afternoon and you're going to look at this and laugh at how naive you are.

Originally Posted by adaptation

I'm going to quote you right now, and future you in 5 years is going to decide to flip through your post history one gloomy afternoon and you're going to look at this and laugh at how naive you are.

If thinking that will make you sleep better at night, as instigative as such words could be perceived, ;o. I'll try to not take what you say as an insult. I'm turning 26 in Oct. I originally wanted to be in the Police as a kid, scrapped that for Firefighting since of seeing that a lot of it is paperpushing - then scrapped firefighting because my body wasn't built for the task, then was soul-searching for around 4 years of inactivity. I came out of it knowing what I wanted to do, if you expect some kind of indecisive youth who's fresh out of High school or something, you'd be furthest from the truth, since I'm extremely decisive in most cases of everything. Which is why I always ask billions of questions either way.

It's not so much about how old you are/how indecisive you are, as it is about hearing directly from professors and other students who have personal experience with that career option. For example, one of our professors told us that it's difficult to get into PsyD programs, what they typically look for, etc. A graduate student in the same class elaborated on her friend's attempt to get into those programs in the states and how it didn't work out for her. These people have direct knowledge of the industry, and their advice can influence your career choices.

Furthermore, while PNB does look on the surface like it's more science-based, that's only in the first year of the program when you're required to take cognition, neuroscience & animal behaviour. they're the foundations of the program, and after that point you can customize your degree with whatever courses you choose. Although I'm a science major, I ended up taking more of the social psych type courses (abnormal psych, social psych, forensics, child development) than neuroscience courses because I was heavily interested in human behaviour. Looking at that checklist, you could easily fulfill all the course requirements for the M.A. by doing a PNB degree, since you have tons of room for electives.

It's true that overall, the department lacks a social psychology focus (in terms of course offerings and professors). This is something I've brought up to our professors and undergraduate program chair a few times, but it's not something that can be changed easily because it's a relatively small department compared to other psychology departments at other universities which have far more faculty. The PNB department tends to hire professors in their niche areas: cognition+memory, neuroscience, visual neuroscience, and autism+child development. We don't have a clinical or counselling niche. I don't know if social psychology fairs any better though. Have you tried talking to past students from the program? Maybe contact the Social Psychology Society ? (although it's summer now, I don't know how fast their email turnaround will be).

And as for Ann, she goes faaaar beyond being a first year academic advisor. I've talked to the first year one academic advisors as well and they were very little help. Ann is like a saint in our department lol. She knows everything and gives the best advice.

When I mention Age and decisiveness, it's a response to his presumptuous claim that I am 'Naive', someone trying to claim they know me or can analyze my future-actions like he did rubs me off the wrong way as obnoxious/rude. When I think 'Naive', first things to come to mind are of course age, inexperience and indecisiveness that may come with the two, which is where I'm coming from on that angle of saying "I am not that." as much as everyone always has room to grow in life til the end of it.

you're going to look at this and laugh at how naive you are

Sounds like asshole material to me.

----

Well, I know how difficult it is. Which is why even if you look at the link for the McGills, their acceptance rate is like, SOOOO low it'd blow your mind.

While these numbers can vary from year to year, we receive approximately 300 applications to both programs and admit approximately 30-35 students. From these numbers, the Professional/Internship concentration receives approximately 250 applications per year and admits 25. The Research Project concentration receives approximately 50-75 applications per year and admits 5-10.

Though I will take all of you said with a big grain of salt, don't get me wrong. Though, the one problem would be I'd have to re-apply to Math that I had dropped out annnnnd drop maybe the Anthropology. I had added a Chem and Math, Chem basically as an Elective unsure if it'd help somewhere in the future. I had Math in it so I could have PNB and Social Psychology open up to me but I was dreading doing Math again even though I did fine at it in College....

I just don't know then, since I didn't take a Math 'U' in Grade 11/12, but College, then I'd think I have to apply for 2 Maths in the first year, but the 2nd one I remember was full at Day One of program selections. I'm guessing if I really, really had to do PNB/Social Psychology options - I'd have to take MATH 1K03 and then do a Summer term with MATH 1M03 (as long as I get at least B- in 1K03) <_> . . . .

Which sucks then :/

[Update] - Well, good news/bad news - I checked SOLAR and was able to get 1K in term 1 and 1M in term 2 without conflict, albeit, warping around my Socio class from day to evening. Though, I had to sacrifice 2 electives that I was looking forward to - PHILOS 1B03 - Philosophy, Law and Society and ANTHROP 1AB3 - Introduction to Anthropology: Identity, Race and Power

In-doing this, even if by suggestion. It does leave me open to 'Options'. Though I always was pessimistic about Maths of any kind.

ahh fair point n__n while adaptation did come off a little rude, I think they were just touching on a super common phenomenon. probably everyone I know has ended up changing their mind about either their undergrad program or career choice at some point during their time in school. I've done it myself too. Looking back, I never pictured myself where I am today.

I'm not a fan of math myself but it's a necessary evil sometimes for a lot of programs I'm afraid xD

I also encourage you to go to the Level II program fairs next year, maybe talk to the students and professors there before making a final decision.

Good luck!

I didn't mean to insult you, i suppose i could have delivered my message in a less blunt way, my apologies.

Naivety doesn't necessarily imply you have to be young, i'm saying you're inexperienced [as well as myself, and Bob down the street, and Bob's grandma]. Why would i make such a claim? Because we're all inexperienced in life and career decision making unless you've lived a life already. So unless you're reincarnated or a cat with 9 lives, its naive to assume at this single second your future is set in stone and not transient like every other thing in life.

I'm just trying to say put a little wiggle room and flexibility in your plans. You never know what the future holds, and if you build a plane with stone wings, don't be surprised at your inability to steer when you change your route half way through

Originally Posted by ooburii

ahh fair point n__n while adaptation did come off a little rude, I think they were just touching on a super common phenomenon. probably everyone I know has ended up changing their mind about either their undergrad program or career choice at some point during their time in school. I've done it myself too. Looking back, I never pictured myself where I am today.

I'm not a fan of math myself but it's a necessary evil sometimes for a lot of programs I'm afraid xD

I also encourage you to go to the Level II program fairs next year, maybe talk to the students and professors there before making a final decision.

Good luck!

I don't think it's kind in any way to tell a person that their passion is - or makes them naive, I'd think my reaction is a normal reaction to a stranger telling you that. Though, it's better if a person knows who you are before making those claims since I'm that kind of person who, puts their foot down and settles for something and will not budge where if I say I'm going to do something or will succeed in something if I put my mind to it, I do. Implying opposite is, offensive to me. Lol, at the end of it, water under the bridge.

I got through with Ann and she did infact help a lot, made me at least believe that PNB would be the better choice although my program selection makes it so both Social Psy and PNB are open for me upon completion, she added that there isn't really any Masters program for people who finish Social Psy. Even if I may go into a Non-Thesis route for the Less-research oriented route, which is where I'm trying to head with the whole Project Concentration one rather.

If I can remember something about the fairs, depends on the time of when it happens? (Month?)

Originally Posted by adaptation

I didn't mean to insult you, i suppose i could have delivered my message in a less blunt way, my apologies.

Naivety doesn't necessarily imply you have to be young, i'm saying you're inexperienced [as well as myself, and Bob down the street, and Bob's grandma]. Why would i make such a claim? Because we're all inexperienced in life and career decision making unless you've lived a life already. So unless you're reincarnated or a cat with 9 lives, its naive to assume at this single second your future is set in stone and not transient like every other thing in life.

I'm just trying to say put a little wiggle room and flexibility in your plans. You never know what the future holds, and if you build a plane with stone wings, don't be surprised at your inability to steer when you change your route half way through

I'm an extremely blunt person myself, but there's always a way deliver a message in kind and with more thought put into it of how it will effect the people its targeting.

Doesn't have to, but can correlate due to lack of experience, both of self and of social spaces in my mind. To what you say about 'always naive', I already did brush upon that in my post by saying: "as much as everyone always has room to grow in life til the end of it." aka, Life.

That's a bad analogy :l and implies being inept at foresight.... It's always engineers that rub me the wrong way, my brother especially being a Power Engineer. They speak their mind without fully understanding what it is they're saying to the full extent of potential consequences to the very words they use. Systematic understandings and practicality usually spot-on, social understanding, not so much? - My planning is not 100% foolproof, but it is planned with foresight in mind since I'm First Year - and I'm planning Graduate studies since everything before that is already planned out. I have no reason to build a flawed plane with wishful thinking or blind optimism.

Nonetheless though, I'm guessing the boat has sailed and I'll be pursuing PNB instead - albeit for the same goal mind you. Though I'm guessing having a research-oriented background will be more in my favour and hopefully Term 1 courses will show me what it is I'm in for and that I can handle it since in most cases, the problem is just the unknown of whether or not I'm ready for University, lot of pressure. I did great in College but I'm one of the only people especially in my entire family to go to University, I lacked a lot of confidence in my past since of bad teachers when I was younger. It'd be what I'd say am naive about, that being 'self-understanding', I'm unsure of what my limits are and since of that, I just have to go with the flow and hope any fears were just groundless and keep going with mind over matter.

Last year I believe the Social Science level II program fair was on March 25. The date changes but I think the month itself is the same every year. There are usually announcements sent out.

Another thing is the Fall Preview Open houses (Oct 25/Nov 15). It's marketed at highschool students, but I know personally that PNB has student reps and (sometimes) professors repping in the Psych Building Lobby, and since they're bored to death for half the day, I'm sure they'd be more than willing to share their experiences. Social Psych is probably the same, but most of their planning is organized by the Social Psych Society, not their department, so you'd have to check to see what they're doing on those days.

Originally Posted by ooburii

Last year I believe the Social Science level II program fair was on March 25. The date changes but I think the month itself is the same every year. There are usually announcements sent out.

Another thing is the Fall Preview Open houses (Oct 25/Nov 15). It's marketed at highschool students, but I know personally that PNB has student reps and (sometimes) professors repping in the Psych Building Lobby, and since they're bored to death for half the day, I'm sure they'd be more than willing to share their experiences. Social Psych is probably the same, but most of their planning is organized by the Social Psych Society, not their department, so you'd have to check to see what they're doing on those days.

Hmmm. So, Open house happening for Dec/Winter students? Bored professors? Try to remember how to hunt them down and ask things? xD

Originally Posted by Neco

Hmmm. So, Open house happening for Dec/Winter students? Bored professors? Try to remember how to hunt them down and ask things? xD

they're bored because few people come to the psych building to ask questions about the program. a lot of high school students aren't thinking ahead to second year and beyond, they tend to just focus on questions like what the school is like/what first year courses are like. hence, you'll find them eager to answer any of your questions since it gives them something to do (I've been going to these events as a rep for about three years now. )

Originally Posted by ooburii

they're bored because few people come to the psych building to ask questions about the program. a lot of high school students aren't thinking ahead to second year and beyond, they tend to just focus on questions like what the school is like/what first year courses are like. hence, you'll find them eager to answer any of your questions since it gives them something to do (I've been going to these events as a rep for about three years now. )

Sounds like a plan, long as I remember where to go and when Though, unsure what questions I really have atm beyond 'Future questions' of their perception and suggestions.