I also wanted to say that when I saw "HOG", not knowing what it meant, I realised it could stand for "the name of a friend: Original Gangster".

So now I'm going to start thinking that KGP is the defeated admission of a res kid agreeing to commute next year.

(i.e. "K. GO Pass.")

The "Do you KGP?" will be associated with giant pandas in my mind.

Originally Posted by harmonysky

they better be using their own money to pay for all that chalk and not club funding through student fees =)

pffft, stop whining about the money thing already :p. Just because you particularly don't care much for the idea of God, doesn't mean that the rest of campus doesn't.

Originally Posted by harmonysky

I feel that school shoould be a place to go without being bombarded with religious advertisements by students. It's a place to chill.. study and relax.

again... since when is "chalking" bombarding... We're "bombarded" (MAYBE) with commercials and products we should buy cuz we "need", we're "bombared" (MAYBE) with posters of people that are running for different positions in the SRA. We're "bombarded" (maybe) with ads on buses and billboards all the time.

Do we all care about all of them? no... :p. Do we complain or whine about them... meh, maybe some people sometimes. But we don't say that just because we don't need certain products or really care much for the SRA that people should stop advertising. What's different about people's faith? What is so different about what people believe about a higher being than what they believe about different technologies, or products, or about their desires to be elected for a position in a committe? There's a lot of things that are ACTUALLY shoved in our faces and "forced upon us" but we don't whine about it :p. I wanna keep pushing my point that I think the only reason so many people are SOOO upset about what these people are doing is because of the letter "G" :p... People don't really care for chalking, people don't really care about things being shoved in their face... and if they do... its not to this extent... any coments? . Oh, and we can still all relax, study and chill regardless of what's chalked/not chalked right?

Originally Posted by harmonysky

Each person choses to believe or not believe in their own God.

agreed

Originally Posted by harmonysky

It doesn't matter what religion you are or if you don't believe in god itself... It's just stupid seeing KGP written across every surface by idiots who claim and pride themselves in "knowing god".

*sigh*. This is when people stop taking the things you say seriously... you can't just say someone is stupid because they believe something that most human beings believe... :p. It's stupid seeing KGP written all over campus? I'm not gonna argue that... only you can say if something you do is stupid or not... And, I don't think they're priding themselves in it... they are posting something they believe in strongly. And I think they are either FORCING it on people (and therefore not arrogantly priding themselves in it, because they want other people to know too... ) or they really ARE priding themselves in it and won't want anyone to know so they can keep it to themselves... I guess we'll just have to see where all this goes

195 replies on this thread! WHOA!

Originally Posted by Kathy2

But when it's plastered all over campus on the ground, it's just annoying.

so again... is it annoying cuz it's "plastered" (like a million other things on campus)? or is it because it's something you don't really care much for? (I'm just wondering...)

Originally Posted by Kathy2

It's even on the sidewalk leading up the hospital. I'm fine with people celebrating their beliefs and getting together with people who feel the same way, but it doesn't need to be advertised in such an "in your face" manner.

doesn't everyone want to advertise and make themselves as visible as possible though (if it's something that they really care about)?

Originally Posted by Kathy2

It's on the chalkboards in leture halls and the profs have to waste time erasing it all... It's just such a waste and so unnecessary.

come on... :p. I think someone already posted how silly that sounds. Wasting time erasing? pffft... puh-lease. If something bothers you we all wanna hear it (that's what this thread has become about anyways...) but make it a reasonable something.

Originally Posted by Kathy2

I know a lot of groups write on the ground with chalk, and it's usually no big deal - but this time it's too much. I just want to come to school, relax and not have to deal with this kind of stuff. As for cleaning it up, I think someone on this thread said it will be "washed away by the rain in 2 days". It's obviously not going to rain in 2 days so I'm guessing it's going to be there for a while.

[quote=Kathy2;126654]lol i guess it'll be there for a while then ... but I DON'T think it'll be too demanding of you to have to "deal with it" though, if it does become something that is unmanageable... I don't know.

Originally Posted by drez99

so again... is it annoying cuz it's "plastered" (like a million other things on campus)? or is it because it's something you don't really care much for? (I'm just wondering...)

You clearly missed the gigantic thread complaining about all the signs for McMaster homecoming. :p

Originally Posted by Mowicz

The irony is, because there are so many holes in evolution (whether true or false) that it's possible to disregard evolution completely without completely missing the facts...instead what you're disregarding, is 'filling in the details.'

Here's a little thought experiment:

Suppose we all die out as a species and the planet becomes desolate. In zillions of years, a race of Transformers (just for fun) comes to Earth and begins to dig into its crust in search of scientific evidence.

After some digging, they come across some modern cars, like say, a Mustang. They dig even deeper and find some Model T's.

Optimus Prime then makes a hypothesis: The Mustang evolved from the Model T. (which is clearly absurd, and it completely disregards the interaction with human beings. The analogy is, more people get sick during the Christmas Holidays...do we then conclude the Christmas Holidays make people sick? No, there are other factors such as the cold weather/stress, which are being overlooked)

---------------

While I'm not saying that, beyond all doubt, I'm certain that this is an incorrect assumption (assuming we evolved based on fossils), it is a leap in the logic...we've been conditioned to say 'of course we did, there are bones.' But examining raw facts doesn't mean too much...there are no facts that give us this causal relationship between homo habillus and homo erectus (let's say). It's simply the best guess science has at the moment. Some day it may change drastically, should we ever come up with a more thorough, more complete explanation for what happened.

Personally I'm more inclined to believe that human beings are silly and are likely to have made an incorrect assumption somewhere...and that someday evolution will be refined into something completely different because science is dynamic, it's ever-changing. Besides...I don't feel like a monkey. ):

So I pitch to you: I'm technically denying evolution in this post, does it seem like I'm disregarding facts? I'm choosing logic (in essence, my personal interpretation of the facts) over other peoples' opinions/explanations of them. In essence I am choosing faith but I'm not choosing it over fact.

I actually like reading almost every one of your posts, Mike - even, actually, the math ones, which I find especially interesting.

I don't know how you developed that process of critical analysis, but you should teach it because I think enough people would like to learn.

Critical Analysis > Jacobians

You know it's true

Originally Posted by A.Marlowe

You clearly missed the gigantic thread complaining about all the signs for McMaster homecoming. :p

ahhh! yes, that I did

Originally Posted by rcrw88

Thats the most retarded and ill-informed post i've seen on these forums yet. Gratz.

I long for the day when we're going to have a "When you say "That's so gay, do you realise what you say?"" moment with "That's retarded".

While it makes me want to put my fist through a wall, I particularly enjoy how every user of that word seems to think they're demonstrating some higher form of intellect.

And here's something else:
Since this is a forum that observes a Code of Conduct, usage of that word is unacceptable because it does not promote an equal and welcoming environment.

If you think using the mentally disabled as a platform for some slang insult is tolerated, I suggest you go elsewhere.

Originally Posted by A.Marlowe

In the same way that we aren't talking about throwing out the theory of gravity, we're adding to it so that it can explain every case.

Actually...that's almost exactly what happened. Mathematically, the 'classical' formulas for gravitational force, etc. were, are, and ever shall be, reasonable approximations.

The theory however, that objects 'attract' each other has been completely rejected...in an attempt to explain why gravity exist, we had to completely disregard 'classical' views of objects being pulled together...unless I'm mistaken, the current view of gravity is that it is as if the two objects sit on a sheet of paper, and make little creases in the paper, causing them to 'fall into each other.'

The sheet of course being Minkowski Space, and the primary motivation for this theory being a geometric interpretation of the mathematics involved (some sort of metric defined on spacetime). But again...this may very well be tossed out entirely someday.

So in other words, mathematically...yes, we're 'adding' to the formulas to capture things like high velocities, large masses, etc. But theoretically, (in terms of the 'ideas') we wind up at a very different place.

Do you have a link to that DNA stuff? I searched a bit but couldn't really find it, I'd be really interested in reading it. My understanding was that the "cutting" of the DNA was regulated by the code itself.

Unfortunately since my primary source is a friend of mine doing graduate research in genetics, I'm not exactly sure where to look for such a paper...I'll ask her, I'm sure she knows a decent source, and I'll PM you or something if I get a good source. (:

To clarify...introns and exons are a part of DNA...they're a specific 'nonsense' part of genes that don't translate into specific protein coding...instead they dictate how the DNA/RNA is cut during Protein Synthesis.

Essentially the idea is, if you have a whole bunch of code there, but cut pieces out and paste them together in different ways, you will actually get different proteins...which translates into genetic variation (with relatively little DNA variation).

This idea is huge though...if you think about it, it may mean that, although Chimps have the most 'consistent DNA' with human beings, if the inconsistent DNA is the 'meaningful part' (with instructions about cutting/pasting the rest of the code) they may actually be more distant 'evolutionary ancestors' or whatever the teminology is, than other species.

A good question to ask is, why is it that chimps have the most DNA in common with us, and yet chimp organ transplants fail in most cases? Conversely, pigs who have less DNA in common with us than chimps, supply organs with a much higher success rate...ie. pigs are closer to us, in an 'organ' sense, if that makes sense. This question may be addressed fully, if introns/exons are a better indicator of genetic ancestry.

I'm a bit tired now, but hopefully that makes sense.

Just a question

Which came first, proteins or DNA? The code for each protein is contained in the DNA/RNA system. However, proteins are required in order to manufacture DNA. So which came first: proteins or DNA?

Another thing is that at the rate of decay of the earths magnetic field, it is impossible for the earth to be older than 25000 years or life would not exist because the magnetic field would be too strong. Btw the rate of decay of magnetic field is a constant.

And if homo sapiens were around for 190,000 years, why is there history records that only date back to 5000 years?

Originally Posted by drez99

pffft, stop whining about the money thing already :p. Just because you particularly don't care much for the idea of God, doesn't mean that the rest of campus doesn't.

The point is not who cares about a god or not, it's about having *no* religious *anything* all over the place.

Originally Posted by drez99

again... since when is "chalking" bombarding... We're "bombarded" (MAYBE) with commercials and products we should buy cuz we "need", we're "bombared" (MAYBE) with posters of people that are running for different positions in the SRA. We're "bombarded" (maybe) with ads on buses and billboards all the time.
Do we all care about all of them? no... :p.

They are not *religious* - i think you're missing the constant point of we don't want religion all over our campus, and in our students' homes.

And will you quit with the ridiculous amount of emoticons? It's almost as bad as that college pro thread with the HUGE CAPITAL BOLD LETTERS!

Originally Posted by Ryan V

Another thing is that at the rate of decay of the earths magnetic field, it is impossible for the earth to be older than 25000 years or life would not exist because the magnetic field would be too strong. Btw the rate of decay of magnetic field is a constant.

And if homo sapiens were around for 190,000 years, why is there history records that only date back to 5000 years?

I lol'd.

Originally Posted by Ryan V

Just a question

Which came first, proteins or DNA? The code for each protein is contained in the DNA/RNA system. However, proteins are required in order to manufacture DNA. So which came first: proteins or DNA?

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB015.html

Originally Posted by Ryan V

Another thing is that at the rate of decay of the earths magnetic field, it is impossible for the earth to be older than 25000 years or life would not exist because the magnetic field would be too strong. Btw the rate of decay of magnetic field is a constant.

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CD/CD701.html

Originally Posted by Ryan V

And if homo sapiens were around for 190,000 years, why is there history records that only date back to 5000 years?

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CG/CG040.html

Pretty sure you got those questions directly from this site, plus you're an engineer, so I'm going to go a head and say you're trolling. :p
---------------------------------------

Mowicz, I actually didn't know that gravity stuff. I'm going to go ahead and say you won that debate. Definitely going to look into that Genetics stuff, I wish I had found out about it when I was actually doing Genetics. I might just pretend to be in Dej's class this semester so I can ask her about it...

Would you at least agree that evolution fits the current evidence we have better than any other theory, and as such should be accepted at least until a theory that better suits the evidence is proposed?

Originally Posted by micadjems

The point is not who cares about a god or not, it's about having *no* religious *anything* all over the place.

Thank you ... that's kind of what I wanted to hear. It has nothing to do with the method or what they choose to do... it's just because it's "religious". Some people have no god and want nothing to do with one, and other people that once lived that way have realized that they were wrong and now see the reality of God and, very understandably, want EVERYTHING to do with God.

I think the reason there is so much tension at Mac (and really everywhere...) is because people who don't believe in God are not willing to compromise on anything. They want go 24 hours a day without hearing or seeing anything that has to do with God. Now, if they decided to stay in their room 24/7 that could probably happen... But because we ALL share a common university and university grounds that expectation is not reasonable and so there should be no complaining or whining about it.

I remember hearing so much whining last year about people who would be having prayer meetings outside, or sitting down by the trees and praying, or even had people playing Christian music at the student center... So my thoughts on that are...

Let's not think that the university should be a Godless environment, nor that for some reason the "default setting" of Campus should be secular and anything that has to do with God should be "contained" or "controlled". Let's not have this idea that a "clean" and "pure" university is that which has no God - that's just personal opinion, and every Christian and most people of other faiths would disagree. If the sole basis of the argument why there should be no "God" on Campus (outside of the little meetings or events they have...) is simply because other people find it annoying (again not because of what they are actually doing but because of what it is about...) then that really doesn't hold very much weight.

Maybe just try and think about what it is about God that offends people so much. It's not the people you have a problem with, it's what they're tryign to promote / tell people.

Originally Posted by sew12

I took it as an implication that everyone who doesn't agree with religion/isn't religious isn't knowledgeable about it, hence why I stopped reading.

His next post seems to clarify that he also disagrees with religion, and now reading your lastest post it seems he meant he didn't want to be like specific people whose knowledge of religion comes from only those sources. I read it as everyone else b/c that's what he said, the use of people rather than everyone else would have been a good clarifier in the original post, that's all.

I grew up as a Roman Catholic and went to Catholic school all my life and met lots of great, devoted religious people at Christian Summer camps and whatnot but when I got older I realized those kind of religious people become overshadowed by the crazy zealots.

I hate these people ruin organized religion for everyone b/c for some people they get a lot out of their faith and religion but that crazy nutbags like Westboro give religion a poor reputation. I hate that people use religion as essentially a justification for hatred, intolerence, war and any number of things are are the exact opposite of what Christ would have believed in if he were a real person.*

*Not saying he is or isn't, just pointing out how hypocritical certain factions of religious zealots are.

While I'm not sure I personally believe in God I don't think people who do are crazy, just that many people twist belief and religion into something awful and claim superiority based on their beliefs. Ick.

Faith is often blinded by religion, but it doesn't have to be. Reject the institution, not the ideas - this is where the true benefit comes from.