For those of you in third and fourth year saying math wasnt easy in previous years either, the OP is not saying it was.
The tests were however more based on textbook problems and examples. Having seen last years test I am of the opinion that the difficulty of this years test is greater. I actually used the previous years test to tell me how ready i was the night before the actual test. Having done very well within an hour and not using any notes i concluded that i was prepared enough to achieve a decent mark.

The test was however not ok. I, like many people I have talked to, was forced to guess on about 8-10 of the 16 questions. Only these ~6 questions had any relevance to the textbook or sample test style of question. Most people were forced to all out guess.

What really determined the mark for the first test, and to a lesser extent the second test, was how lucky you were. It would seem that for a large group of people the mark could be summed up as
(5or6 + randomGuess)/16

Its is this complete lack of adequate grading system that pisses me off. I went from about an 8 (in 1z04+1zz5+2z03 average weighting 2z03 as most important) to about 30% and my mind is still reeling about how this is possible, especially when people that are weaker in me than math are doing better from good guessing.

What I hope the petition does is point out just how bad people think this course is. As for course evaluations....well people have to be in class to write those, and i dont know a single person who goes to math class anymore. I would however be fairly satisfied if they opened up evaluations again but this time on mugsi, similar to that of some science courses.

Originally Posted by qwerty91

For those of you in third and fourth year saying math wasnt easy in previous years either, the OP is not saying it was.
The tests were however more based on textbook problems and examples. Having seen last years test I am of the opinion that the difficulty of this years test is greater. I actually used the previous years test to tell me how ready i was the night before the actual test. Having done very well within an hour and not using any notes i concluded that i was prepared enough to achieve a decent mark.

The test was however not ok. I, like many people I have talked to, was forced to guess on about 8-10 of the 16 questions. Only these ~6 questions had any relevance to the textbook or sample test style of question. Most people were forced to all out guess.

What really determined the mark for the first test, and to a lesser extent the second test, was how lucky you were. It would seem that for a large group of people the mark could be summed up as
(5or6 + randomGuess)/16

Its is this complete lack of adequate grading system that pisses me off. I went from about an 8 (in 1z04+1zz5+2z03 average weighting 2z03 as most important) to about 30% and my mind is still reeling about how this is possible, especially when people that are weaker in me than math are doing better from good guessing.

What I hope the petition does is point out just how bad people think this course is. As for course evaluations....well people have to be in class to write those, and i dont know a single person who goes to math class anymore. I would however be fairly satisfied if they opened up evaluations again but this time on mugsi, similar to that of some science courses.

Nobody gives a crap about your petition, lol.
Grats on 2z03..

Originally Posted by RyanC

Nobody gives a crap about your petition, lol.
Grats on 2z03..

lol not my petition. although clearly I support it. were i to start a petition i would wait till after exams and spend a lot of time wording it to make it sound as professional as possible.

Originally Posted by qwerty91

For those of you in third and fourth year saying math wasnt easy in previous years either, the OP is not saying it was.
The tests were however more based on textbook problems and examples. Having seen last years test I am of the opinion that the difficulty of this years test is greater. I actually used the previous years test to tell me how ready i was the night before the actual test. Having done very well within an hour and not using any notes i concluded that i was prepared enough to achieve a decent mark.

The test was however not ok. I, like many people I have talked to, was forced to guess on about 8-10 of the 16 questions. Only these ~6 questions had any relevance to the textbook or sample test style of question. Most people were forced to all out guess.

What really determined the mark for the first test, and to a lesser extent the second test, was how lucky you were. It would seem that for a large group of people the mark could be summed up as
(5or6 + randomGuess)/16

Its is this complete lack of adequate grading system that pisses me off. I went from about an 8 (in 1z04+1zz5+2z03 average weighting 2z03 as most important) to about 30% and my mind is still reeling about how this is possible, especially when people that are weaker in me than math are doing better from good guessing.

What I hope the petition does is point out just how bad people think this course is. As for course evaluations....well people have to be in class to write those, and i dont know a single person who goes to math class anymore. I would however be fairly satisfied if they opened up evaluations again but this time on mugsi, similar to that of some science courses.

Sounds like you need more friends to "compare your Matlab resuts with"

Originally Posted by mike_302

Do it up, like a BOSS.

http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/math2zz3

This petition was created by a fellow Eng student in second year who, like many of us, has found that 2ZZ3 is a massive waste of tuition fees, time, and an epic disaster to many GPA's. It's because the course is so damn inconsistent from year to year, profs are never in-line with each other, TA's for labs are not on the same level and often do not know the solution to the MATLAB questions that we're asked, and because the questions have been (this year anyways) a poor reflection of the material from lecture.

In response to Schuyler's post (FYI I didn't write the original petition message), I'm not sure if it's easier or harder this year, but I'd go as far as saying that the level of difficulty has changed. For better or for worse, I can't say, but it's definitely indicative of an inconsistent course with equally inconsistent outcomes. This year, I know that none of the test averages had passing averages from the class in general, even after significant "curving" (which actualy favoured the students with higher marks... We won't go into that).

McMaster has had math as a required course for as long as the faculty has existed (obviously), so why, after all of these years, is the course not more fair and consistent? As much as people hate Physics 1E03, or Chem 1E03, I don't think anyone would say they were unfair... The trickiness of the questions sucked, but after you find out you "screwed up that question" you were always able to say "ahhhh, that's why... Okay, I get the concept". Not with math though...

Mike, if you can't handle the heat, stay away from the fire.

These profs just want to **** us up.....
but anyways, i love to hear swear words all test long in previous tests lol

Rofl... Can't handle the heat? I'll do relatively fine in the course. For all the people who think this is about "being unable to handle the course", and are refraining from signing just because you did the course before: Note that we're not fighting necessarily for our year. If it doesn't get reviewed and bell'd hard core this year, we just want this petition to bring the Engineering Math under more scrutiny of the Engineering department.

I agree that the testing changes from year to year, but if the testing stays the same, people acquire sample tests and as a result the average is usually higher.

So, in a way, I feel it is fair to change the style every year, since no one has an advantage then, even though we all learn't the SAME content from the SAME book.

Guess it's kinda just one of those Biology 2C03 things... where everyone gets dicked one term because the professor was changed and the new one is a moron.

LOL math is so ****ed ...

Honestly most people I know aim for a 1 .................and half of them dont end up making it.

People who get above a 5-6 tell me they are shocked and dont get how they got the mark.
Why couldnt gabardo increase the matlab weighting ....

get smarter? i don't see whats so hard...the test are always doable.... you just have to know how to do the questions quickly and accurately. Think about it this way, in the real world, if your boss gives you a problem he wants you to solve, and gives you a week... are you going to start a petition to boycott your boss because he gives difficult time frames? no. your going to do the work, or suffer the consequences. The fact that (and im basing this off last year) 75% of the students were under-prepared is not the fault of the professor, he's not here to hold your hand... and if i did miss the point of the post... well #pointandlaugh

Originally Posted by RyanC

Nobody gives a crap about your petition, lol.
Grats on 2z03..

that's why it already has around 200 signees in around 24 hours....

Plus most people ARE missing the point of the petition, I don't have the course this semester but most of my friends do and just by taking a look at the tests they've written and comparing it to previous years tests as well as textbook homework problems that are supposed to "prepare" them for the tests it's completely different and yes I will go as far and say that last year was much easier with matlab being a bigger portion of the mark and the tests themselves were easier. However, disregarding even that there should be some level of consistency in the type of questions year to year or at the very least give homework problems that will prepare you for what you will be testing the students on, neither of which has happened.

Originally Posted by chappy89

get smarter? i don't see whats so hard...the test are always doable.... you just have to know how to do the questions quickly and accurately. Think about it this way, in the real world, if your boss gives you a problem he wants you to solve, and gives you a week... are you going to start a petition to boycott your boss because he gives difficult time frames? no. your going to do the work, or suffer the consequences. The fact that (and im basing this off last year) 75% of the students were under-prepared is not the fault of the professor, he's not here to hold your hand... and if i did miss the point of the post... well #pointandlaugh

I agree that the tests are doable this year, and they arent 'hard' per se, its just that they are so different from any textbook question, lecture example, or past test that poeple do not do well. Its hard (not impossible, just hard) to do 16 questions in 75 min when every single question involves a random trick that takes a substantial amount of time to see

Originally Posted by HaXoRZ

that's why it already has around 200 signees in around 24 hours....

Plus most people ARE missing the point of the petition, I don't have the course this semester but most of my friends do and just by taking a look at the tests they've written and comparing it to previous years tests as well as textbook homework problems that are supposed to "prepare" them for the tests it's completely different and yes I will go as far and say that last year was much easier with matlab being a bigger portion of the mark and the tests themselves were easier. However, disregarding even that there should be some level of consistency in the type of questions year to year or at the very least give homework problems that will prepare you for what you will be testing the students on, neither of which has happened.

I don't feel I missed the point of the 'petition'. The professors are... less than perfect.. I found the people who did poorly study enough (I know I didn't!), and if you put in the work, you get a decent grade. Maybe this year is an exception, but all of the math courses I've taken have had no unreasonable surprises, the MATLABs weren't inconsistent with the course material, and the courses WERE in line with each other.

I appreciate that you're doing this in an attempt to essentially 'help' the engineering math (and students in the future), but this just seems like a knee-jerk reaction from a bad test.

Sowwy if I'm ignorant about the reality of this situation

Originally Posted by HaXoRZ

that's why it already has around 200 signees in around 24 hours....

Plus most people ARE missing the point of the petition, I don't have the course this semester but most of my friends do and just by taking a look at the tests they've written and comparing it to previous years tests as well as textbook homework problems that are supposed to "prepare" them for the tests it's completely different and yes I will go as far and say that last year was much easier with matlab being a bigger portion of the mark and the tests themselves were easier. However, disregarding even that there should be some level of consistency in the type of questions year to year or at the very least give homework problems that will prepare you for what you will be testing the students on, neither of which has happened.

matlab was so hard last year though! well im sure if you ask the 10% of people who actually did the work (i being one of them :( )... it took its toll on the other 90% too... their F5 keys will never be the same