Wow this is actually one of the most helpful and inspiring threads about medicine I have read I while..
Then again I do have to say I think you don't give yourself enough credit. Yes you got B's but your overall GPA is still pretty good.
I have two questions:
1. What program did you actually do for your undergrad, I realize you got a B.Sc , but for what?
2. Do you know any engineers that got in, and what their averages were like?

@MacPack: First, I'd just like to clarify that I think B's are great marks and that my average was not by any means poor. BUT, most people that discuss getting into med school will usually say that you need >10 even >11 out of 12 overall each year or else you're not good enough. I know many peers that were turned away from med and were disappointed in themselves for getting some B's, which I think is ridiculous. That's a great achievement! So yes, gpa is a huge thing for medschool and lots of students have >3.9 and all A's, but it is possible with many B's as well. Having a C would be trouble though.

1. You can check to the left to see I did my undergrad in kinesiology. I chose that instead of general sci because it's a fantastic program and really prepares you very well with anatomy and physiology, two main topics on the mcat and in medschool. Minored in bio.

2. I don't know any engineers personally, but it's definitely doable. Medschools do NOT take undergrad program into consideration when you apply. I know of former clowns, art students, nurses and midwives that got in. Here's McMaster's list of statistics for all medschool matriculants for last year. http://fhs.mcmaster.ca/mdprog/documents/Classof2012.pdf
You can see that 4 engineers got in! 8 kin students too! Hope that helps

-Mitch

Originally Posted by mitch

Hi MacPack!

I know of former clowns, ... that got in.

-Mitch

lol hilarious clowns. anyways question, as you said above orgo is a huge concern of mine. i am really good with bio and physics but when it comes to chem, well it sometimes goes downhill. so organic chemistry is a huge concern. so i was just wandering, even though u already said this, is it a must to take orgo in second year, or can i make it through mcat without it.\

thanks
~ krupesh
B.Sc. candidate (dont know what yet something in life sci)
McMaster 2014

hey mitch,
congratulations on your acceptance to med school in mac
are there any specific courses that you recommend aspiring undergrads to take in order to prepare for MCAT? and also, my friends told me i need to take an english course in order to get into med school, is this true? thank you!

Originally Posted by mitch

@Mike - Let me tell you something Mike, I never took university physics! I just didn't want to. It wasn't a prereq for most Canadian med schools. It just helps for the MCAT. So I took Kaplan and studied the entire university physics myself at home after second year. And you know what? My physical section was my highest mark! So absolutely it can be done! But unfortunately I can't recommend it just because the smart thing to do would be to do everything you can to prepare for the MCAT, and taking that course is part of it. So you shouuuuuuuld take the course....but you don't need to As for other prereqs, I got a minor in bio, so I took tons of bio courses, I took general chem and orgo. I also took a bunch of other science courses that weren't required, with a smidgen of bird courses.

That was immensely helpful as I have really been debating on whether or not to take orgo/physics. Although I tanked general chem, I find orgo interesting so I think I may just suck it up and take it. This thread is single-handedly the most useful bit of reading I've done about med school, so thank you very much for taking the time to answer all of these questions.

Originally Posted by _Mike

That was immensely helpful as I have really been debating on whether or not to take orgo/physics. Although I tanked general chem, I find orgo interesting so I think I may just suck it up and take it. This thread is single-handedly the most useful bit of reading I've done about med school, so thank you very much for taking the time to answer all of these questions.

I would highly recommend physics (1B03 at the very least and 1BB3 is pretty useful as well).

Orgo at Mac goes into a lot of detail that you probably don't need to know - I found most of the BS section had the information that you needed in the passage itself. Usually the Kaplan books are sufficient for Orgo knowledge, but extra knowledge doesn't hurt. The only reason why the BS section is difficult is because most premeds come from a Biology/Life Sci/Health Sciences background so people tend to do well with the number of questions that they get correctly. Since the MCAT is standardized getting one question right can make the difference between a 9, 10, and 11 (especially for VR and BS).

Just for clarification, the MMI interviews tend to be different depending on the school. Some schools like will let you talk for 8 minutes without any follow-up questions. Other schools had probing questions that they would ask you if you had extra time. The length of the prompts vary and some will let you take in a pen & paper with you, others will not. The best way to prepare yourself is to read ethics books like 'Doing Right' or the CMA series on ethics (although sections 1-6 are missing). Also, keep up to date about current events in health as well as major political changes happening in the region that you're interviewing.

I didn't find it necessary to hire someone for interview prep. If you can find a friend to practice with and criticize you that might be the cheaper alternative. Science Career Services is also good.

Jeremy - most of the American schools are panel. For Panel interviews the keeping up-to-date with ethics, current events, being aware of the current role of the optometrist, and how your life experiences contribute to your future profession. Golden Key usually has a Professional School Interview Prep Seminar that is free. They'll likely have more insight on what is expected at American Optometry interviews.

my friends told me i need to take an english course in order to get into med school, is this true?

Many schools require a social sciences or humanities course. The American schools like a full-year (6 credits) of English. Memorial requires a full year (6 credit hours), Alberta and UBC both require 6 credits. Other schools recommended 6 units of English-type courses (09/10 Application cycle) - I only had one but I still got in. The Ontario Schools do not specifically require English, but they usually want a soc-sci or humanities course.


Mitch - just sent you a PM =p

As well, certain med schools might want Orgo/Phys etc as prerequisites even if they aren't necessary for the MCAT. A lot of schools are moving away from prerequisites but the school you may decide you really want to go to in 4th year might, and it's just better being safe than sorry.

Hi guys! Thanks for answering some of the questions for me I pretty much agree with what everyone's said so far. In terms of MCAT prep as I've said before, taking the course really helps, but if you're a smart learner, you could probably get away with studying it from scratch. I would only recommend doing that for one subject.. ie. Not taking physics, orgo, general chem etc and trying to study all of them from scratch! Now saying this, I believe that unlike physics, taking the orgo course is immensely helpful for the MCAT. Orgo is completely different from general chem, and without the course, you would have no background on the subject matter to dip into. At least with physics, I had done it all in high school prior to the MCAT.

As for prereqs, research Canadian schools. As I said before, most schools don't need physics. That doesn't mean all schools don't. However the few that did need it, needed other things I didn't have, so I didn't bother. Orgo is needed at many more schools so I highly suggest taking it. The basics (general bio, general chem, orgo, stats) should be taken. Then there are the other courses like biochem, calc, physics and english which are needed by some schools few and far between. Personally, I had to decide when I started fourth year, if I should take any of these other courses. But the schools that needed them I wasn't going to apply to anyway so I didn't.

Finally there are medschools in the US! I won't mention the overseas ones here. US medschools are all equal with their prereqs. They all need 1 year of general bio, 1 year of general chem, 1 year of orgo, 1 year of physics and 1 year of english. There are very few exceptions. So again, if you end up going for US schools down the road, these courses will help you a lot!

Bottomline, take orgo. Don't worry about your marks. You can't go through university not choosing courses because you're afraid that you won't do as well. As I've shown, gpa is not that important compared to other stuff. You don't need perfect A's. This also goes for many of your electives down the road. Choose some bird courses, but don't steer away from really neat, complex courses just because they're known to be hard. You will regret it

-Mitch

Originally Posted by mitch

Bottomline, take orgo. Don't worry about your marks. You can't go through university not choosing courses because you're afraid that you won't do as well. As I've shown, gpa is not that important compared to other stuff. You don't need perfect A's. This also goes for many of your electives down the road. Choose some bird courses, but don't steer away from really neat, complex courses just because they're known to be hard. You will regret it

I agree with this. Canadian schools care more about your ECs and who you are as a whole person vs. whether you have a 4.00 GPA. But keep in mind that the OMSAS 4.0 scale rewards consistency.

U of T is really good with encouraging people to take difficult courses. If you maintain a full-course load, they'll drop your lowest 6 units from your GPA each year. If you apply in your 4th year, that's 18 units dropped from your GPA. Plus Queens & Western take your 2 best years. So even if you have a rough year with orgo and physics, it may not be included in your GPA calculation. Even though Queens and Western are fairly secretive with their admissions process, once you meet MCAT and GPA cut-offs these scores become far less important than your performance on your interview.

hey mitch congratulations.
I just had a question...I'm going into my 2nd year of kin and want to go to med school as well....but I was just wondering if you found that the kin courses got easier as you got into your upper years or harder.
As well, can you recommend some easy 3rd and 4th year Kin courses? ;P haha

Hi Jdia!

That's an interesting question to think about. Personally, I found that with most courses, as I progressed, the subject material became more difficult and the amount of work that had to be done was greater. Saying this, I found that with these more intense courses, the subject material was more specific and easier to learn than in first year. For example, first year anatomy, bio and chem taught so many different things that I'd be good at some but not good at others. It was harder to study such a wide variety of topics. Even though paediatrics in 4th year was way more intense, it focused solely on the growth, maturity and development of children, so I did better.

Bottomline, I think most people do better in upper year courses as they aren't weeding courses like in first year, but they are more difficult.

Easy kin courses eh? Three words - Body...Mind...Spirit! The single most easy and fun course I took in university. It involves 20 minutes of meditation sometimes(rest), games in the gym like red rover, and very simple simple tests. Also nutrition, because it was just easy subject material. They might have changed these subjects since I've taken them though.

These are the easy courses, but there are others I'd suggest that are worth taking. If you have a choice between easy and fun/exciting/complex courses, go for the latter.

-Mitch

Hey Mitch,

Congratulations on your admission to med school at Mac. I have a question about the med schools you applied in the states. You said that u never took university physics but was able to get admission in the states. Which schools are those? The reason I'm asking is because physics was never my strongest subject and I am very reluctant to take it, especially if I want to apply in the states. Most schools down there require 1 year of physics, chem, biology, orgo chem, calculus and very rarely but sometimes strongly recommended english.

Hi Mitch congrats on getting in i know its really competitive...but i had a couple questions for you: since u mentioned that u got average GPA (which I think is pretty decent) does that mean that your autobiographical submission & interview were exceptional? Also do u know if there is any preference given to health sci students? (im in honors life sci) thanks!

@ Darklink - Thanks and nice username btw! Zelda FTW!!! But seriously, you hit it right on the nose with your question Prereqs were my biggest issue with applying to the US, because frankly, I never took university physics and english. However, all the low tier schools I was applying to needed them. I never thought I'd be applying to the US, so this really bit me on the butt!

After long and careful consideration of my options, this past year I worked 3 jobs and took 2 courses at York U close to home. Can you guess what courses these were? English and physics! Yipee Actually at York, they were quite easy and I managed to get an A in both without going to class except for the exams. I did long and tedious research to figure out a list of all US medschools that accepted Canadians that I had a shot at getting into. I applied to all of them, which was about 15 schools. If you want the list I can tell you. So no, there aren't any schools in the US that you can apply to without these courses, sorry!

@Rhythm - I've worked on my autobiographical (extra-curricular experiences) for a long time now, because I knew that had to be my strong point, seeing as how my gpa was average (in med terms). I've done a lot in and outside of university, and I think that this past year it really pushed me above the average student. However, I never went overseas to volunteer like some other students, so I'm not amazing as some others out there!

As for my interview, I think I did extremely well at Mac. I was relaxed and had fun. This came from many many interviews of practice including a professional interview coach. I've had around 20-30 job interviews in the past few years, and a total of 8 professional school interviews. Mac was my last one and by then I was feeling good about it. But right off the bat, during my first interview at Dalhousie, I was not used to it and nervous, so I didn't do so well.

As for your last question, there has been a lot of debate on this. I won't go into the health sci program, because it is an exceptional program to say the least, but the universities specifically state again and again that your undergrad program does not get taken into consideration. This is absolutely true because as you can see by the guide I gave a couple of posts back, people can get in from all backgrounds. Also, students doing undergrad a university don't have an advantage getting into that university.

BUT, there are an extraordinarily large amount of health sci students that get into mac med every year. Personally, I don't think that this is because they are in health sci, but because these are students that almost all want to do med, and almost all have really good averages and almost all do lots of extra-curricular. Also, mac is one of the very few schools which takes in students after third year. To get in after third year you need to be exceptional and have 4.0s and etc. And which students in Canada have tons of third years being really exceptional? Mac health sci!

This is not saying that students in any other program can't be exceptional and get in just the same

-Mitch

hey thanks mitch for a detailed response when u mentioned that u started working on ur autobiographical thing very early do u mean like in ur second year? also is there a form with Q&A for that or do you just write it as an essay? lastly how much extra-curricular activities is considered acceptable because im volunteering in clinics and hospital but i dont do any extra-curricular activities during school year...what should i do? :S sorry for asking too many questions (its just that i don't know many people who got in mac med school and im very curious about it!)

thanks again!

P.S im probably doing English and physics 1bb3 at York next summer