Originally Posted by RyanC

Nothing, to be honest. I have a certain idea about the MSU in my mind that nothing can change it. Maybe if they did something big, like make students ***** less about MUGSI one year, I might take notice.

Fair enough, I think there are a lot of students who hold the same idea.

Originally Posted by Mickel

Just please no more guys campaigning by coming into class and singing with their guitar.

I don't think you'll have to worry about that this year. After how poorly it worked last year, I can't imagine anyone trying that again

Not to make it sound like engineering is the be-all at Mac, but lets be honest:

How much more active is the engineering society then the MSU? To get people interested in it, I think you need more active engineers wanting to participate in it. When the most enthusiastic engineering students get excited about things, word spreads, tickets/swag sells, and hundreds more get excited/involved.

Let's put that last paragraph without "engineer" in there, and look at it as if you just need a more enthusiastic student base following the MSU in order to get people involved.

"To get people interested in it, I think you need a more enthusiastic/excited student base wanting to participate in it. When the most enthusiastic student population gets excited about things, word spreads, tickets/swag sells, and hundreds more get excited/involved."

So go find that excited student population and make them want to be excited... Do it whatever way you have to, but when you succeed at that, that enthusiasm will spread like the word of the day (which is "legs" by the way...).

I'm not sure how the MSU is an actual union.

In a workplace, a union represents their workers and fights for mistreated workers.

Does the MSU fight for students that get accused of plagiarism or academic dishonesty? Do they ensure a consistent and quality educational experience for all of McMaster's students? The state of the union says yes, but from my personal experiences and from what I've been told by others, I suspect no.

Instead, we get a farmstand...

Originally Posted by mike_302

Not to make it sound like engineering is the be-all at Mac, but lets be honest:

How much more active is the engineering society then the MSU? To get people interested in it, I think you need more active engineers wanting to participate in it. When the most enthusiastic engineering students get excited about things, word spreads, tickets/swag sells, and hundreds more get excited/involved.

Let's put that last paragraph without "engineer" in there, and look at it as if you just need a more enthusiastic student base following the MSU in order to get people involved

"To get people interested in it, I think you need a more enthusiastic/excited student base wanting to participate in it. When the most enthusiastic student population gets excited about things, word spreads, tickets/swag sells, and hundreds more get excited/involved."

So go find that excited student population and make them want to be excited... Do it whatever way you have to, but when you succeed at that, that enthusiasm will spread like the word of the day (which is "legs" by the way...).

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. You just want more enthusiasm? While it would be awesome if students were more enthusiastic about the MSU, its not quite the same as a faculty society, there's no tickets or swag to sell...

Originally Posted by sjager

I'm not sure how the MSU is an actual union.

In a workplace, a union represents their workers and fights for mistreated workers.

Does the MSU fight for students that get accused of plagiarism or academic dishonesty? Do they ensure a consistent and quality educational experience for all of McMaster's students? The state of the union says yes, but from my personal experiences and from what I've been told by others, I suspect no.

Instead, we get a farmstand...

Well, the MSU and the University split the cost equally for the OMBUDS office, which is where you would go if you are accused of plagiarism.

In general the MSU as a whole only focuses on academic stuff that affects all students, but the SRA members for each faculty can work directly to with the faculty on educational issues. They also conduct the Quality of Education surveys, which are supposed to give insight into the problems that students are having, so the MSU knows what to fight for. As an example, after many students had complaints about a specific nursing course, I was able to talk with the course planners and get some of them addressed, in part because I had the data from the surveys to back me up.

Unfortunately, right now that's only as useful as the SRA members are. Would getting the SRA members to do things like that more frequently be something that would make you care more about the MSU? A better way to collect academic feedback from students? Or are there any suggestions of issues that you think the MSU should advocate more?

Well, I don't see what's bad about having students more enthusiastic about MSU-run events, clubs, etc... Isn't an enthusiastic crowd a caring crowd? I'm not sure I'd ignore the MSU if I was excited/interested in the events and services it provided.

And you say the MSU doesn't host events/run services/sell swag? (Hey, I could be wrong on this one... I don't pay attention that much to the MSU's offerings, except when it fails to provide something I was slightly interested in)

There are definitely MSU services, but I'm not sure how much enthusiasm relates to them- it doesn't matter how pumped up you get people about 1280 if the food and service are bad. And Campus Events is part of the MSU, but there isn't a problem with getting people to attend the events they run.

I guess what I'm getting at is that students always have complaints about the MSU, and I want to know what needs to be addressed in terms of service. Once that gets looked at, building enthusiasm can follow.

Originally Posted by mike_302

Well, I don't see what's bad about having students more enthusiastic about MSU-run events, clubs, etc... Isn't an enthusiastic crowd a caring crowd? I'm not sure I'd ignore the MSU if I was excited/interested in the events and services it provided.

And you say the MSU doesn't host events/run services/sell swag? (Hey, I could be wrong on this one... I don't pay attention that much to the MSU's offerings, except when it fails to provide something I was slightly interested in)

Not quite. See, Campus Events hosts many events throughout the year. A lot of these events actually have great turnouts. 1280 has club nights every Thursday and they usually hit capacity. There are thousands of students involved with clubs. In general, most of these people are pretty enthusiastic about these events and activities. However, just because these people go out to events or participate doesn't mean they give a shit about the MSU. Therefore, having students more enthusiastic about events, clubs, etc. doesn't necessarily mean that they care. Student apathy is more than just enthusiasm.

Plus, there are much bigger issues that the MSU handles. THESE are the issues that students should care about, not just events and clubs. One prime example is the General Assembly. The real question is why are there low turnouts at these events that matter?

Originally Posted by Marlowe

I don't think you'll have to worry about that this year. After how poorly it worked last year, I can't imagine anyone trying that again

it's the party in the MSU!

Maybe it's time to give it another go. Could you give me an endorsement, Mary?

Originally Posted by Marlowe

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. You just want more enthusiasm? While it would be awesome if students were more enthusiastic about the MSU, its not quite the same as a faculty society, there's no tickets or swag to sell...



Well, the MSU and the University split the cost equally for the OMBUDS office, which is where you would go if you are accused of plagiarism.

In general the MSU as a whole only focuses on academic stuff that affects all students, but the SRA members for each faculty can work directly to with the faculty on educational issues. They also conduct the Quality of Education surveys, which are supposed to give insight into the problems that students are having, so the MSU knows what to fight for. As an example, after many students had complaints about a specific nursing course, I was able to talk with the course planners and get some of them addressed, in part because I had the data from the surveys to back me up.

Unfortunately, right now that's only as useful as the SRA members are. Would getting the SRA members to do things like that more frequently be something that would make you care more about the MSU? A better way to collect academic feedback from students? Or are there any suggestions of issues that you think the MSU should advocate more?

Yeah I think a great platform for a president would be one that wishes to create an easy protocol for students to address course issues and improve them from the beginning of the classes, and to bring awareness to these students for these issues, rather than a month before exams when "course evaluations" are handed out during a lecture that no one shows up for...

Back to the basics, and keep it simple, stupid. What's more, wouldn't it be cool if the MSU could create contracts with the University to prevent rising tuition costs? And if we didn't agree with the contract, all of the students could "strike," that being withdraw their payments as a whole? I think a University would think twice about raising tuition if that happened.

Originally Posted by Marlowe

Fair enough, I think there are a lot of students who hold the same idea.



I don't think you'll have to worry about that this year. After how poorly it worked last year, I can't imagine anyone trying that again

Personally, I have no regrets. While there are a few things I would now change about the campaign, it was one of the more enthralling experiences of my life.

Originally Posted by Marlowe

I guess what I'm getting at is that students always have complaints about the MSU, and I want to know what needs to be addressed in terms of service.

I think what we really need is focus on the important services (SHEC, SWHAT, health/dental plans) and how we provide these services while keeping the lowest possible student fee. Maybe it's just me, but I think the problem is that candidates listen to complaints too much in place of showing real leadership.

Every candidate last election was saying "come talk to me, tell me your problem and I'll put it in my platform." Why is that good? It's basically saying "I really have no clue what this union needs so instead I'll just tell you what you want to hear." And so instead of a discussion about the efficiency and quality of services we have petty arguments about bus shelters and umbrella boxes. And then a bunch of dumb first years who just realized what the MSU was last week vote for whoever championed some dumb fluff idea that they happened to like.

Originally Posted by RyanC

Nothing, to be honest. I have a certain idea about the MSU in my mind that nothing can change it. Maybe if they did something big, like make students ***** less about MUGSI one year, I might take notice.

Hey Ryan,

First things first McMaster has already initiated a Systems Renewal Project as part of its Vision 2020 plan with a approx $25 Mil investment, the ETA for improvements from that to be reflected on MUGSI is Summer 2012 in a best case scenario. Delays might be contingent on the cooperation of various McMaster department sections(finance, student records, research, HR etc) since they have their own priorities and projects and deadlines that might clash with their input into this project(eg: Identifying best practices and requirements).

Unfortunately, MUGSI is a long term project and its almost impossible to turn it around in a "year". Secondly I'm not sure how you are suggesting the MSU do that: financially? Considering the costs of the project are 20+ Million the MSU money is not match for that(or even if its appropriate for them to contribute considering its student money going back into the system)

I wouldn't say myself, Since I have been in contact with UTS, lobbying them on systems renewal since Jan 2010 or the MSU "directly" caused this however myself(as the official steering committee voting member) and Mary(As an official observer) are now part of the process ensuring MUGSI is prioritized and the new system is based on student centered features(wait listing etc). So I would question any allegations of redundancy.

You can read more about Systems Renewal here: http://php.orbiscommunicatio ns.com/srablog/


Secondly, in terms of single handed change my January 2010 meetings with the UTS CIO also were on the topic of moving towards a Web Based Email System and that "idea" of mine eventually with the help of another SRA member(Matt Dillon Leitch) led to the Google Apps project to be implemented after reading week. So once again I question the argument that the MSU doesn't always create large scale change.

So in other words I would request everyone to assess the candidates in the upcoming Presidential and ascertain whose likely to produce the best results.

You can never actually accurately know whose likely to be a good or bad president but one of the many is a critical assessment. I prefer this method where you judge them based on their experience, track record(which is the most important factor since just spending time on the SRA for example doesn't mean we can assume they were fully productive) and reputation within the MSU or in case of outsider candidates how well researched and thought out their ideas are.

And lastly just as a disclaimer, I'm definitely not running for president so this is just my honest assessment/response. I'm not even on a campaign team yet.

Originally Posted by Krusenik

it's the party in the MSU!

Yes, we all remember Casey Park lol. I actually woke up to "Party in the USA" this morning. I sang along before I got out of bed lol.

I didn't say the MSU, etc, hadn't accomplished anything, nor that MUGSI improvement is the only thing that could do it... its just I don't see how my voting actually accomplishes anything. I know they do all these things, but I can't attribute who is accomplishing what, it just seems like a big amorphous body... :/