[lorend]

MSU Stance on the TA Strike

From: www.msumcmaster.ca/content/documents/Link/Press%20statements/McMaster%20undergrads %20left%20high%20&%20dry.pdf

We [the MSU] believe both sides need to take the negotiation process seriously so that students, as the main clients and primary stakeholders of this campus, are not denied a key aspect of their educational experience,” said Vishal Tiwari, McMaster Students Union President. “Unfortunately this has not happened, and as a result some tutorials will not run.”

While the MSU remains impartial to a particular side, the student’s union is extremely disappointed that the process has come to this point. The prevailing sentiment suggests that the longer a strike lasts, the more the undergraduate educational experience will suffer as a result.

“In a large enrolment university like McMaster, tutorials are oftentimes the only real chance undergraduate students have to engage with course material in small groups,” remarked Chris Martin, MSU VP (Education). “This opportunity is being denied to undergrads because of the current disruption, and we feel that is detrimental to our education.”

One of the more troubling aspects of the current strike is the rhetoric surrounding educational quality as a matter of concern for negotiators.

Fortunately, undergraduate students will see through these arguments, as they come from parties who have directly placed the quality of education at McMaster University in jeopardy.

For more information, please contact:

Vishal Tiwari
President, McMaster Students Union
[email protected] ca
905-525-9140 ext. 23885

Chris Martin
VP (Education), McMaster Students Union
[email protected]
905-525-9140 ext. 24017

While personally I am neutral in terms of education that there is a strike (I only have one tutorial and I can't stand it, so I'd like to not go to it as long as possible), I agree that not having tutorials and labs really hinders education here.

I don't know much about labs because I'm in Pol Sci, but I know in first, second and sometimes even third year, tutorials are vital to understand course readings and lectures. The last few years, I often felt I wasn't learning anything in class until we talked about it in tutorial and that helped it sink it.

I hope students aren't missing out on too much because their tutorials are cancelled (though I know many are still running)

Originally Posted by Kathy2

While personally I am neutral in terms of education that there is a strike (I only have one tutorial and I can't stand it, so I'd like to not go to it as long as possible), I agree that not having tutorials and labs really hinders education here.

I don't know much about labs because I'm in Pol Sci, but I know in first, second and sometimes even third year, tutorials are vital to understand course readings and lectures. The last few years, I often felt I wasn't learning anything in class until we talked about it in tutorial and that helped it sink it.

I hope students aren't missing out on too much because their tutorials are cancelled (though I know many are still running)

If the strike goes on for much longer a lot of students are going to be missing a lot.

If the strike goes on I'll have to teach myself more tips and tricks about Adobe Illustrator even though I've paid tuition this year to have someone teach it to me and help me understand tips and tricks of the program.

If the strike goes on much longer I'll be missing out on discussions on Communication Theory. I've paid for these discussions and they're supposed to help me engage with the material I read weekly. Not to mention I won't get to do my presentation since if the strike continues presentations will be severely backed up to the point where the marks for them may have to be redistributed arbitrarily to something that may not serve my education or that of my fellow students.

Also my commute, a commute I have to shell out $226 a month for is being disrupted by the strike. It may be a small disruption but I don't pay to stop out on Mainstreet and have to stand on a busy corner with tons of other students. It feels dangerous everyday with that many people crowded and trying to get on a bus. Someone is going to get hit one of these days.

The strike is disrupting my education and my life and this is not what I paid almost $6000 dollars for.

It all adds up. Those are the disruptions to my every day and my education but what about the disruptions to 19 000 other students? Imagine how many people's commutes are being re routed, or how many percentage points might have to be redistributed or how much extra exam studying people will have to do because they didn't have a chance to discuss and ask questions about material in their tutorial, or how many assignments people have been working hard on already might have to be disrupted.

Needless to say I'm not pleased at how non-caring CUPE seems to be about the disrupting of student's education across the board, even though they claim what they're fighting for are things that will better our education. If this goes on much longer I really don't give a damn how many better they think my education will be next year, I care about how disrupted its been this year.

Originally Posted by sew12

Needless to say I'm not pleased at how non-caring CUPE seems to be about the disrupting of student's education across the board, even though they claim what they're fighting for are things that will better our education. If this goes on much longer I really don't give a damn how many better they think my education will be next year, I care about how disrupted its been this year.

Comments like this really irk me. So many undergrads are under the impression that this entire situation is CUPEs fault. Let me ask you this: If you were in the TAs situation and felt like the contract that you were being offered was wholly unfair (nevermind the details of the current offer) what would your approach be? How about if the University decided to walk away from the table and not even leave the window open to bargain on the matter? What exactly are the TAs left to do when the university refuses to bargain on a contract that they believe (The TAs) is significantly worse then the previous contract. I'm really curious as to what your strategy would be, and I'm sure CUPE and every other union that has felt as if they were left with no other option but to strike would love to hear also. Quite frankly, if it works, you could be on to something that is pure gold.

I'm not pro-university, but it in no way means I'm pro-CUPE. Personally I'm anti-strike and pro-settlement. That being said, my skull isn't so thick that I can't realize that it takes two stubborn parties to cause a strike, and two accepting parties to reach a settlement.

'Nuff said.

Originally Posted by talues

Comments like this really irk me. So many undergrads are under the impression that this entire situation is CUPEs fault. Let me ask you this: If you were in the TAs situation and felt like the contract that you were being offered was wholly unfair (nevermind the details of the current offer) what would your approach be? How about if the University decided to walk away from the table and not even leave the window open to bargain on the matter? What exactly are the TAs left to do when the university refuses to bargain on a contract that they believe (The TAs) is significantly worse then the previous contract. I'm really curious as to what your strategy would be, and I'm sure CUPE and every other union that has felt as if they were left with no other option but to strike would love to hear also. Quite frankly, if it works, you could be on to something that is pure gold.

I'm not pro-university, but it in no way means I'm pro-CUPE. Personally I'm anti-strike and pro-settlement. That being said, my skull isn't so thick that I can't realize that it takes two stubborn parties to cause a strike, and two accepting parties to reach a settlement.

'Nuff said.

I'm pretty sure that putting pressure on the university via the media and other means would be just as effective as the terribly weak strike that's going on right now.

CUPE could have made it publicly known that they weren't going to strike, and basically sit at the bargaining table, waiting for the university to come back.

They could make the university look so bad, that it could be a real threat to the immediate future of the university, essentially giving the university no choice to return to the table and bargain, since otherwise they would risk not filling their first-year seats.

Perhaps my idea wouldn't be as effective as a strong strike, but frankly the strike that's going on right now is a joke, and I'm sure the university is laughing. CUPE played this wrong from the start.

Originally Posted by talues

Comments like this really irk me. So many undergrads are under the impression that this entire situation is CUPEs fault. Let me ask you this: If you were in the TAs situation and felt like the contract that you were being offered was wholly unfair (nevermind the details of the current offer) what would your approach be? How about if the University decided to walk away from the table and not even leave the window open to bargain on the matter? What exactly are the TAs left to do when the university refuses to bargain on a contract that they believe (The TAs) is significantly worse then the previous contract. I'm really curious as to what your strategy would be, and I'm sure CUPE and every other union that has felt as if they were left with no other option but to strike would love to hear also. Quite frankly, if it works, you could be on to something that is pure gold.

I'm not pro-university, but it in no way means I'm pro-CUPE. Personally I'm anti-strike and pro-settlement. That being said, my skull isn't so thick that I can't realize that it takes two stubborn parties to cause a strike, and two accepting parties to reach a settlement.

'Nuff said.

Did CUPE demand binding arbitration?

If they didn't they didn't do everything they could to avoid the strike.

Originally Posted by arathbon

Did CUPE demand binding arbitration?

If they didn't they didn't do everything they could to avoid the strike.

For the sake of avoiding a strike, I agree with you 100%

It should be noted though that all parties would tend to want to avoid arbitration, since more often than not, both parties end up giving up a little more than they'd like and not getting enough out of it to be worth it.

Originally Posted by talues

Comments like this really irk me. So many undergrads are under the impression that this entire situation is CUPEs fault. Let me ask you this: If you were in the TAs situation and felt like the contract that you were being offered was wholly unfair (nevermind the details of the current offer) what would your approach be? How about if the University decided to walk away from the table and not even leave the window open to bargain on the matter? What exactly are the TAs left to do when the university refuses to bargain on a contract that they believe (The TAs) is significantly worse then the previous contract. I'm really curious as to what your strategy would be, and I'm sure CUPE and every other union that has felt as if they were left with no other option but to strike would love to hear also. Quite frankly, if it works, you could be on to something that is pure gold.

I'm not pro-university, but it in no way means I'm pro-CUPE. Personally I'm anti-strike and pro-settlement. That being said, my skull isn't so thick that I can't realize that it takes two stubborn parties to cause a strike, and two accepting parties to reach a settlement.

'Nuff said.

Just so you know I'm not pro-University in this situation and I am pro-TAs. I support my TAs and I want them to get a fair deal. I just don't like the way CUPE is going about dealing with this situation and I don't like how the strike is affecting the education that myself and my parents saved up money to pay for.

Just because I don't agree with the strike or I dislike what this is doing to my life and an education I paid for doesn't mean I'm against the TAs. I think their demands are on the whole very reasonable and I wish their union could reach a fair deal with the University for them. I just also wish it didn't come down to a strike.

Thank you though for implying that I have a thick skull and don't understand the situation and don't realize that CUPE and the University are involved in the bargaining.

I never once said I was pro-University or that this wasn't partly McMaster's fault. Way to ASSume.

Originally Posted by sew12

Just so you know I'm not pro-University in this situation and I am pro-TAs. I support my TAs and I want them to get a fair deal. I just don't like the way CUPE is going about dealing with this situation and I don't like how the strike is affecting the education that myself and my parents saved up money to pay for.

Just because I don't agree with the strike or I dislike what this is doing to my life and an education I paid for doesn't mean I'm against the TAs. I think their demands are on the whole very reasonable and I wish their union could reach a fair deal with the University for them. I just also wish it didn't come down to a strike.

Thank you though for implying that I have a thick skull and don't understand the situation and don't realize that CUPE and the University are involved in the bargaining.

I never once said I was pro-University or that this wasn't partly McMaster's fault. Way to ASSume.

You know what? Now that I've reread what I said and reread what you have said, I realize that I kinda vented my frustration others have caused me on these forums on you, someone who has actually been contributing meaningful posts to the discussion. I apologize for directing these remarks towards you.

The internet: Letting anyone making an ass of themselves in seconds since the 1960s...

Originally Posted by arathbon

Did CUPE demand binding arbitration?

If they didn't they didn't do everything they could to avoid the strike.

Did either the university or CUPE demand binding arbitration?

I say that if the vote on the presented contract fails we petition to have both CUPE and the university go to binding arbitration (if this is possible. I haven't checked the law on this yet). I'm sure many people from all camps would agree that this may be the best/last resort in ending the strike and reaching a fair agreement.

Originally Posted by talues

The internet: Letting anyone making an ass of themselves in seconds since the 1960s...

I think Al Gore said that once.

Originally Posted by talues

Did either the university or CUPE demand binding arbitration?

I say that if the vote on the presented contract fails we petition to have both CUPE and the university go to binding arbitration (if this is possible. I haven't checked the law on this yet). I'm sure many people from all camps would agree that this may be the best/last resort in ending the strike and reaching a fair agreement.

I think I another post I have suggested that the University should also ask. But just wanted to point out not everything was done.

Obviously the University feels they cannot offer any more, and CUPE does not feel the current offer is acceptable. The only way out in the end is arbitration so I really wish they had skipped to it in the first place.

Originally Posted by arathbon

I think I another post I have suggested that the University should also ask. But just wanted to point out not everything was done.

Obviously the University feels they cannot offer any more, and CUPE does not feel the current offer is acceptable. The only way out in the end is arbitration so I really wish they had skipped to it in the first place.

I'm going to have to agree with you. This strike could have been avoided completely through the use of arbitration.

This may all be a moot point as the contract may be voted through may the union members (a move I would no necessarily agree with). If not, I think arbitration may be the best bet in avoiding a lengthy strike.

Originally Posted by talues

Comments like this really irk me. So many undergrads are under the impression that this entire situation is CUPEs fault. Let me ask you this: If you were in the TAs situation and felt like the contract that you were being offered was wholly unfair (nevermind the details of the current offer) what would your approach be? ...

I probably wouldn't have taken the job in the first place. But hey, that's just me.