Alright, let me lend a little bit of perspective here as I was in science first year, and I transferred into health sci for second year.

First Year science was pretty tough, and comparatively, my first semester of health sci was a joke. I had one hard course, which was anatomy. The rest were not very hard at all, and some bordered on being a joke of a course. I thought I was coasting for the rest of the year.

However, things got tougher in second semester. I have courses where we teach cell bio and biochem concepts to ourselves (inquiry based) . I am in meetings for these two courses up to 16 hours a week, in addition to research and studying, which easily matches or outstrips that amount of time. We're getting deep and dirty into the science behind these concepts. They are not bird courses at all, contrary to popular belief.

So in the end, both have their ups and downs. First year science had a metric shit-ton of work to get through, but you could do it at your own pace. Second year Health Sci had one joke of a course, and some tough ones. It also has group meetings that take up a lot of your time. The program forces you to work within a group that may or may not have members that will disembowel you if you don't do adequate work. And you'd better do that work cause for the two inquiry courses I'm in since they select project presenters at random, and that shit is worth a lot of your mark. And doing that work does help you learn the concepts that you're supposed to (the system works?). So as for difficulty...at this time, I'm going to call it a draw between first year science, and second year health sci.

That's all I'll say with respect to that. It might be "harder" to some, "easier" to others. They're both really subjective measures. But it's no cakewalk, I'll tell ya that.

As for the stereotypes being thrown around campus ( whiny, pampered, spoiled, med-school robot etc.) , I'm not gonna lie, I have found that there is truth to it. However for the most part the people populating the program are well intentioned and quite nice.


I found a couple of posts in this thread to be ridiculous by any standard, and I'm calling them out:

Originally Posted by maclover

In a nutshell, I believe that Health Sci faculty and students are overrated. making life miserable for faculty students who work harder than health sci's but do not appreciated for their efforts.

Its like that 1905 Russian Czar system where health sci's are the bourgeosie who do nothing but get appreciated and other faculties being the poor peasants working their butts off everyday hopelessly.

We need a revolution.

I hope you're being tongue in cheek...otherwise...

Wow...you have quite a chip on your shoulder there, and a flair for the dramatic. "Making life miserable"? Bourgeoisie? It seems like you have a very personal hatred of the entire faculty. Did the health sciences faculty burn your house down or something? I don't see how we make your life "miserable", or how you are a peasant? I don't see any health sci students profiting from your physical labour. Give the forum a freakin' break, and get over the massive injustice you've constructed in your mind for some reason.

Originally Posted by FireDragoonX

Health sci course averages are 75%-85%, for the whole class (not just 1st year courses, but all of them).
Courses like chem, and every other non-health sci course in this university, where there are people from all faculties, have course averages of 65-75.

You don't see anything wrong with that?


Grades are inflated in ALL health sci courses.

You seem to know a lot about how the health sciences program works, how'd you find so much out? Please give us more of your..."insight". Where did you get these numbers? Rumours like this are just fanning the flames.

Anyways,

The above might be a bit harsh, but what I'm trying to get across here is that there is an unecessary amount of hate being directed to the BHSc program. A lot of it based on rumour, hearsay, and individual perceptions. People need to be rational here, instead of lumping together and labelling an entire program as a bunch of wussed out douchebags (I may be one, but not everyone else is!).

Sure they seem like they're getting it easy. I thought that too in first year, when I was in science. But now on the "inside" (cause it's a super secret organization, don't tell anyone), I see that it's still challenging in different ways. I'm up at 4 am prepping for a group interview with our professor (mostly cause I'm procrastinating writing crap like this post), like I'm sure many others are up preparing for different tests, etc. University is challenging. No matter what program you're in.

Health sci students are...well... students too, not some oligarchy that runs Mac.

Or are we? Stay tuned for the answer.

Also, I've found out that we're not given carte-blanche to choose our own mark for inquiry (contrary to popular belief, and what I believed as a first year science student).

The instructor has final say. If you've done jack-shit and demand a 12...it's not gonna happen.

Im not a health sci but i have taken health sci classes. Specifically third yr virology and immunology and 4th yr neuroimmunology and adv immunology. These are not BIRD courses by any rate. Neuroimmunology had me reading at least 5 research articles a week, as well as writing a bunch of papers and presenting. i put a LOT of hours into that class as well as viro and immuno. I am currently in the process of taking adv immuno, and it is the same as my other science classes. no bird, no easy grade. i know ppl who didnt put the effort into neuroimmune and came out with a bad mark. i put the effort in and got a 12 but i EARNED it! so i think this whole convo is about a lot of different perspectives. yes i understand ppl think health scis are babied and maybe to a bit they are OR maybe they have a different learning criteria in place for them. thats why its a separate faculty at mcmaster!! I dont think anyone benefits from ppl complaining about ANY other faculty! if anything attack ur our faculty dont start pointing fingers at others just because YOU are dissatisfied.

Originally Posted by Woody

As was stated by someone earlier in this discussion, a large proportion of President's Award (95%+ out of high school) recipients are health science students. I think it is a stretch to say that all of these students were favoured in high school as well. It is also a stretch to say that health science students are favoured in courses like chemistry, physics and orgo, which are run by a totally different faculty. Many health scis also receive very high marks in these courses.
Maybe health science students actually work hard to achieve high grades...

On another note, one thing which is being taken for granted in this discussion is that all health science students have a 3.9+ GPA. This would be the case if we were all handed out 12's for directing musicals and such, but this is simply not true.

ALL students have a 3.9+ GPA? You have got to be kidding me. Where did you pull that statistic from? It's remarks like this that just adds fuel to the fire. It's also really annoying that false statistics are being generalized to an entire faculty based on no evidence whatsoever.

The philosophy of the program is based highly on PROBLEM-BASED LEARNING. There are courses of all variety- some that are tough, some that are easier, and many where you have the opportunity to shape your own learning goals. People may pursue different goals through these opportunities. Many, as you mentioned, pursue different activities that they enjoy but they are simply following the course guidelines of setting up a learning project based on what they personally want to learn. And who says that they're guaranteed 12's? Once again, pulling stats out of nowhere. Everyone has the assumption that 12's are just given randomly after you complete a project. Does that even sound logical to you? There is obviously a supervisor evaluation component involved and you must present your learning in a format that you've compromised with the supervisor. It's up to the supervisor what mark should be given.

As for Inquiry I, which everyone I know believes is the course where 12's are handed out......not true at all. Once again, generalization and false presumptions at its max. The course itself is based on personal learning and growth as well as research skills which students are REQUIRED to take in first year. You actually have to show evidence of this development by doing research projects, and detailed reflections of how you've grown. People may think this is all a crock, but you can't really say much if you haven't been in the course and realize how difficult it is to reflect so intensely on yourself and have to expose that to others. I know many people I talked to who would have rather just opened up a textbook and studied for an exam. The final mark is also purely established on the depth of your evidence in growth, and the final approval of that mark comes from the professor. I know people who have had their marks changed. And if you've ever taken Inquiry I, you would understand that there is no possible way that a mark could be given based off a final exam or even a project.

Marks do matter but the entire pedagogy of the program is based on learning and reflection. And the difficulty of the program is COMPLETELY subjective to each individual. I actually find it offensive that once again, a complete generalization has been made about how easy health sci is. I know many people that found it very difficult to handle - and it's like that for any program in university. We all deal.

I've been bashed personally (in my face) about Health Sci pretty much since my first day in the program so I'm used to it. While I appreciate that everyone has their opinions, I wish they could take more time to ask questions about the program before proceeding to bash it.

"Marks do matter but the entire pedagogy of the program is based on learning and reflection. And the difficulty of the program is COMPLETELY subjective to each individual. I actually find it offensive that once again, a complete generalization has been made about how easy health sci is. I know many people that found it very difficult to handle - and it's like that for any program in university. We all deal.

I've been bashed personally (in my face) about Health Sci pretty much since my first day in the program so I'm used to it. While I appreciate that everyone has their opinions, I wish they could take more time to ask questions about the program before proceeding to bash it."


lol go baaaaaawwwwwwww moar somewhere else. you made a whole account to tell us you were offended and baww? sounds like healthsci to me.

Steps, he/she was just defending his/her faculty. I do it all the time with Humanities. I'd appreciate if you would quit your trolling and say something constructive. Clearly many people in this thread are passionate about their views and you're just being a jerk. Lay off

Trolls add flavour and colour to our lives! We should all appreciate that. From the smallest of bridges, to the biggest of internet forums, trolls make life worth living!

Originally Posted by samtheman89

Trolls add flavour and colour to our lives! We should all appreciate that. From the smallest of bridges, to the biggest of internet forums, trolls make life worth living!

Too bad trolling is against our TOS then eh?

I am in third year of BHSc, and let me tell you something, no we do not get to choose our grades for any of our courses. Not for inquiry I, not for 4X03. I have not completed 4X03 yet but I can tell you what happens in Inquiry I. The facilitator will pretty much know how hard/how much work you have been putting in to the course when you walk into that final interview. He/she will also know how you have been performing as a part of your group. So, you can bring in evidence as to why you deserve a 12, but if it's not real, it backfires on you.

How many people who bash on health science at mcmaster have ever taken the time to talk with someone in health sci? Have you ever seen them slave over a cell bio textbook, prepare for a midterm or spend countless hours studying in the library? Have you ever taken into account that their studies are not based on some common knowledge we are all born with, and in theory, are required to understand. Most health sci's are driven by the goal of one day making it to med school... med school. not a desk job or a secretary, a doctor. that's right! the people who you all bash on and slander about self-governing marks are going to be your future doctors.

Following this train of thought, don't you think that they would get a huge slap in the face entering first year med school if these individuals were not the best and brightest of their class? Don't you think that after 3 or 4 years of extensive studying, they have earned the marks they receive? Just because people hear through the grapevine that one or two classes allow for self-evaluation does not give anyone the right to criticize.

Sit down and evaluate the comments you make before you make them. Many worthy individuals have earned the provost (not being in health sci). we should applaud these students instead of shadowing their achievements with slander against fellow learned folk.

As for the trolling, maybe you should invest in attaining the Provost for next year. Then you can have something else to whine and complain about. Better yet, maybe they will create a new honour as the most disrespective student that had nothing better to do with their time and you can wear your medal to class.

Originally Posted by steps2health

*moderated post*

If you really have nothing constructive to say, i suggest being quite. especially from someone who is only a PART TIME student, mocking other faculties is pretty arrogant of you. ive met some great health sci, and your jealous of them is really starting to get annoying, get over yourself bud, you got rejected.

Originally Posted by steps2health

*post has been moderated - original post broke tos*

The pot calling the kettle black. An ego check would do you wonders.