Abstract from Bernard Lewis "The new Anti-Semitism":

There is a well-worn platitude that we have all heard many times before: it is perfectly legitimate to criticize the actions and policies of the state of Israel or the doctrines of Zionism without necessarily being motivated by anti-Semitism. The fact that this has been repeated ad nauseam does not detract from its truth. Not only do I accept it, but I would even take it a step further with another formulation that may perhaps evoke surprise if not shock: it is perfectly possible to hate and even to persecute Jews without necessarily being anti-Semitic.

But this is one of the many sources I was studying last year about this whole stuff & Issue; but I will admit my definition of the whole stuff ended up being pretty muddled and distorted simply because of the extensive stuff I read(It started out with a peace studies essay and went to far!). It's all lost somewhere; but I'm just deviating from the topic so I apologize if someone took offense to it!

Originally Posted by huzaifa47

Abstract from Bernard Lewis "The new Anti-Semitism":

But this is one of the many sources I was studying last year about this whole stuff & Issue; but I will admit my definition of the whole stuff ended up being pretty muddled and distorted simply because of the extensive stuff I read(It started out with a peace studies essay and went to far!). It's all lost somewhere; but I'm just deviating from the topic so I apologize if someone took offense to it!

You know I'm not entirely sure if that quote really helps the argument you're trying to make.

All that says to be though is that you might hate Jews but you're not anti-Semitic in general because there are non-Jewish Semites. That's all I get from that.

What exactly are you trying to say with this? You've claimed it's not bad to be labeled an anti-Semite but yet you haven't given a definition of an anti-Semite that would lead me to believe its not a bad thing.

Anti-Semitic means you hate/are prejudiced against Semitic peoples, how is that not "that" bad?

As I said its hard to articulate a basic definiton of it since its all arbitrary you just said: "Anti-Semitic means you hate/are prejudiced against Semitic peoples, how is that not "that" bad?"

"Means" is the key word; It "means" according to one definition :S

p.s: You have to read the entire article to get what that quote was implying.

Edit: ahh soo I'll try another approach; What I was saying is that Its not "bad" to be called an anti-semitic IF we go by the popular but flawed/misappropriated definition of it! Because the popular definition isn't entirely correct.

The word was coined in 1879 from the Greek words "anti", meaning "against" and "Semite", meaning a descendant of Shem. Hence there is no race/religion/ethnicity involved to be exact concerning the Jews of Israel today. Because #1 & #3 are Social Constructs and #2 Has nothing to do with the original defintion at all. Popular Society has built up a definition that changes historically(vaguely explained in the wiki; but you can do more research on it obviously!)

As I said its all semantics; I'll just clarify again that it wasn't MY view of the term.

Arn't we all a tiny bit racist? I mean every single person out there is racist. We all do it and Racism is something that will not go away... its always going to be there...

Originally Posted by huzaifa47

As I said its hard to articulate a basic definiton of it since its all arbitrary you just said: "Anti-Semitic means you hate/are prejudiced against Semitic peoples, how is that not "that" bad?"

"Means" is the key word; It "means" according to one definition :S

p.s: You have to read the entire article to get what that quote was implying.

You can't change the definition of a word that has historically meant something like hatred of a group of people based on race/religion/ethnicity etc. It doesn't work like that. Saying Antisemitism doesn't mean hatred of X doesn't just erase the years of history the word carries with it and the history of Antisemitism in the world.

You can twist it all you like but being anti-Semitic is bad.

Originally Posted by feonateresa

I don't think the problem lies with whether or not the CSA is racist (which it isn't), it just lies with having ethnic groups at all. I feel like it just celebrates pointless "differences" that don't really exist. I get celebrating your culture, but I feel like people don't understand that it's about cultural differences and not the colour of your skin or ethnicity.

I agree 100% that ethnic groups are the dumbest thing on campus and i really don't think they should be allowed or receive funding. I think that if anything they incite racism.

I happen to KNOW they are racist and blatantly so, especially the Asian ones (probably because they have the largest groups of members and therefore it is easier i guess to be a bit more exclusive). Perfect example. When one of the groups (CSA I think) were handing out moon cakes I was walking with my girlfriend (who is Chinese) and as we walked by the table someone stepped out and asked her if she wanted a free moon cake. She doesn't particularly like them and said no, I on the other hand happen to love them, so I said, "Oooh, free moon cakes. Can i get one?" and they actually said, "oh... uhh no sorry, you're not chinese."

I wanted to start a big fuss right there and my girlfriend knew it so she just pulled me along and we left. But that event STILL bothers me every time i see them.

I thought these groups were about SHARING your culture. I defy anyone to explain and legitimize that incident; until then cultural groups (ALL OF THEM, asain, black, hispanic, white, religious, i dont really care) in my opinion, are a waste of space and time.

There are jerks in every group -- it doesn't legitimize the incident, however.

Originally Posted by PaulTersigni

I agree 100% that ethnic groups are the dumbest thing on campus and i really don't think they should be allowed or receive funding. I think that if anything they incite racism.

I happen to KNOW they are racist and blatantly so, especially the Asian ones (probably because they have the largest groups of members and therefore it is easier i guess to be a bit more exclusive). Perfect example. When one of the groups (CSA I think) were handing out moon cakes I was walking with my girlfriend (who is Chinese) and as we walked by the table someone stepped out and asked her if she wanted a free moon cake. She doesn't particularly like them and said no, I on the other hand happen to love them, so I said, "Oooh, free moon cakes. Can i get one?" and they actually said, "oh... uhh no sorry, you're not chinese."

I wanted to start a big fuss right there and my girlfriend knew it so she just pulled me along and we left. But that event STILL bothers me every time i see them.

I thought these groups were about SHARING your culture. I defy anyone to explain and legitimize that incident; until then cultural groups (ALL OF THEM, asain, black, hispanic, white, religious, i dont really care) in my opinion, are a waste of space and time.

I had a similar incident at the CSA table in Musc; the only difference was that they said you have to be an international student to be able to buy a moon cake: Which I incidentally was. But I'm not sure what they might have said if I was a born caucasian Canadian :S I never gave thought to that thing.

I think the thing with Israeli apartheid week (like some other counter-Zionism events) is that anti-semites have infiltrated them (witness what happened at york university to the jewish student association and its members), and therefore people are distrustful of people involved in these organizations.

I have heard people make comments about Israel and let me tell you they were not strictly about zionism but involved: 1) That jews are all part of a secret zionist plot against north america and that they planned 9/11 2) Jews are evil and greedy and that's why they occupy Israel 3) The jews are half breed mongrels and never had any historical ties to Jerusalem or the middle east 3) That all jews hate muslims and 4) (this is often repeated among some more extreme elements in the arab world) Jew's kill children and make pastries with their blood. 5) The holocaust never happened and Jews pretend it did in order to extract money and land from others.

All of the above are arguments that are clearly anti-semetic statements that I've heard ( or in the case of # 4 read) that have been disguised amongst legitimate criticism.

If people wonder why many people associate the two that's it.

Originally Posted by arathbon

I think the thing with Israeli apartheid week (like some other counter-Zionism events) is that anti-semites have infiltrated them (witness what happened at york university to the jewish student association and its members), and therefore people are distrustful of people involved in these organizations.

I have heard people make comments about Israel and let me tell you they were not strictly about zionism but involved: 1) That jews are all part of a secret zionist plot against north america and that they planned 9/11 2) Jews are evil and greedy and that's why they occupy Israel 3) The jews are half breed mongrels and never had any historical ties to Jerusalem or the middle east 3) That all jews hate muslims and 4) (this is often repeated among some more extreme elements in the arab world) Jew's kill children and make pastries with their blood. 5) The holocaust never happened and Jews pretend it did in order to extract money and land from others.

All of the above are arguments that are clearly anti-semetic statements that I've heard ( or in the case of # 4 read) that have been disguised amongst legitimate criticism.

If people wonder why many people associate the two that's it.

Oh Wow; I'm not even sure if this post even warrants a reply :S That is an incredibly biased and inflammatory statement! :( You are just trying to provoke a reaction based on "apparent" statements by a minority; while I'm not refusing the notion outright that people are capable of making such statements that is NOT the end and all reason why those terms are confused together. You are apparently a first year student from your profile; anddd you are claiming first hand observation evidence from the incident at York.

Plus it is incorrect to accuse that "anti semitic's have infiltrated Israeli Apartheid week :S

I don't know what halal meat is. Doesn't make me a bad person, sorry to say.

I live with 4 jewish people and I still don't understand why it's blasphemy for my clean dishes to touch her clean dishes.

It doesn't make you a bad person, I was just kind of surprised. I'm not muslim, but I guess I've always been around a large cultural diversity which some people aren't exposed to unfortunately.

I've found that in instances where people have specific dietary restrictions or practices, sometimes it's interesting to ask them about it.

Originally Posted by huzaifa47

Oh Wow; I'm not even sure if this post even warrants a reply :S That is an incredibly biased and inflammatory statement! :( You are just trying to provoke a reaction based on "apparent" statements by a minority; while I'm not refusing the notion outright that people are capable of making such statements that is NOT the end and all reason why those terms are confused together. You are apparently a first year student from your profile; anddd you are claiming first hand observation evidence from the incident at York.

Plus it is incorrect to accuse that "anti semitic's have infiltrated Israeli Apartheid week :S

How is that statement inflammatory or incorrect?

They were saying that the problem with such groups who are against things like Israeli Apartheid (as they see it) is that anti-Semitic people have joined their group and are using what might otherwise be a legitimate platform for reasonable debate and are using it to spout hateful beliefs. They aren't saying all the people in those groups are like that, just that they have been infiltrated so to speak and this scares people. Very often unfortunately you'll see radicals latch onto legitimate causes in order to spread their message of hatred, its the easiest way for them to be heard but it makes other people look up otherwise legitimate groups in a negative light because of the radicals.

Also they're clearly just posting about comments they've heard spoken by anti-Semitic people just like others have posted racist comments they've actually over heard. I don't see what the difference here is, just because you see them as attacking something you view as a legitimate cause?

Unfortunately there are lots of anti-Semitic and very loud radicals just as they are unfortunately many racists still around. These people are leeches and use any means necessary to get their message of hatred, even latching onto things like debates involving Israel. They turn legitimate debates about Israel into an opportunity to spread anti-Jewish propaganda. As you said being against Israel's Humanitarian policies and what not does not make you anti-Israel, or anti-Jewish or anti-Semitic but a lot of people who are all those terrible things use covers like that to spread their anti-Jewish propaganda and just flat out lies (see Holocaust deniers).

Originally Posted by sew12

How is that statement inflammatory or incorrect?

They were saying that the problem with such groups who are against things like Israeli Apartheid (as they see it) is that anti-Semitic people have joined their group and are using what might otherwise be a legitimate platform for reasonable debate and are using it to spout hateful beliefs.
.

Evidence?

Secondly my concern was with the apparent statements that these "anti semitics" make Jews make pastries etc etc....It is inflammatory in that sense that the next time we have Israeli Apartheid week people will start relating/being biased toward the whole event because of the apparent radical minority that is "in there". Plus there is no evidence that they are actually in there; so hence its still an unproven accusation.