Originally Posted by REPLEKIA/.

if you actually research the AIDS crisis in south africa you will find that the country actually denied gifts of money to pay for the medicine, as well as gifts of the medicine itself, all because the country's leader believed in naturopathic medicines so strongly.

Well, if you research further, you would find that most if not all these 'gifts' and 'helps' come with 'conditions'. Many of the countries refused to accept them because they do not want Western cultural invasion, economic control by others, missionaries and more. Do not blame the naturopathic practices. Canada is a great country, it is one of the best if not the best. Still, look at how we treated our Natives. No wonder many of these countries 'denied help'. It is a lost either way. As a strong human rights believer, these Western 'gifts' are unethical. Gifts should just be gifts.

Originally Posted by REPLEKIA/.

Almost every herbal treatment that naturopathy and homeopathy boast to have actual effects do get tested on, please do not claim otherwise. Those that have been found to be beneficial are generally put into use as actual medicine. For example, extracts from the rosy periwinkle and the yew tree are both used to combat cancer. Aspirin is extracted from willow bark. There are numerous more examples if you wish to look it up. What is left over and used by modern naturopathic medicines are:
a) Far less effective versions of medicines that are derived from nature, ex. aspirin.
b) methods that have not been proven to work or have been proven not to work.

the harm of naturopathic medicine lies in people believing it is as effective as real medicine that is proven time and time again through clinical trials. People who could easily be cured of illnesses through conventional methods occasionally resort to alternative meds instead and don't survive.

You can go look up articles in PubMed, Google Scholar or other scientific sources, you might be surprised to find that there is limited research on naturopathic herbs and practices. There were studies done, but I think more is needed. Since you brought up the topic about aspirin, did you know that there is a higher risk of developing ulcers due to the use of commercially synthesized aspirin? This would not a problem if you use the willow bark as it is digested and metabolized in the body differently. Thus, the natural product can decrease the possible side effects and why don't we use this? It's again about profits and pharmaceutical companies' 'power and dominance'. In general, I hope that more research and funding can be used for naturopathic practices as mother nature has a lot of gifts waiting for us to discover.

When it comes to believes, there are always two sides to the story. Thus being open-minded is important. People died using conventional medicine and people died utilizing naturopathic medicine as well. Just because you believe in the values of naturopathic medicine, it does not mean that you denied the benefits of conventional medicine. So please, don't use the word 'real' when it comes to conventional medicine. Never forget about your past, all of our ancestors has lived and survived before conventional medicine was developed. Naturopathic medicine is real as well. Why not try to make the best out of our long history instead of denying it? =)

Originally Posted by RyanC

On-topic: With a countless number of possible illnesses and even more potential remedies, we have to at least give credit to the naturopathic since it's likely they discovered the basis of most of what we use today...

Well actually, the individuals who discovered the treatments that are the basis of most-of-what-we-use-today were medical professionals, not people like modern day naturopaths.

There are some naturopathic remedies that are not all specifically bad/adverse, and its not exactly fair to group them with homeoquackpaths, but people who dabble in both are obviously credulous and ignorable.[/quote]

Well, certified Naturopathic Doctors are medical professionals just like your family doctor in most provinces in Canada under the law. They are strictly regulated and must take regular tests to keep their licenses.
And yes, I am totally skeptical about non-certified homeopaths.

Originally Posted by coolmichy

Well, if you research further, you would find that most if not all these 'gifts' and 'helps' come with 'conditions'. Many of the countries refused to accept them because they do not want Western cultural invasion, economic control by others, missionaries and more. Do not blame the naturopathic practices. Canada is a great country, it is one of the best if not the best. Still, look at how we treated our Natives. No wonder many of these countries 'denied help'. It is a lost either way. As a strong human rights believer, these Western 'gifts' are unethical. Gifts should just be gifts.

And if you actually did some research, you will find an exceedingly large number of charities that offered aid without any conditions. that's kind of what charities do. One very famous one was Medicine San Frontiers (Doctors without Borders). The government actually sued them for distributing the retroviral drugs after the government refused to accept them and distribute the drugs themselves. You're in a really bad place when you wake up in the morning and think suing Medicine San Frontiers is a good idea.

Originally Posted by coolmichy

You can go look up articles in PubMed, Google Scholar or other scientific sources, you might be surprised to find that there is limited research on naturopathic herbs and practices. There were studies done, but I think more is needed. Since you brought up the topic about aspirin, did you know that there is a higher risk of developing ulcers due to the use of commercially synthesized aspirin? This would not a problem if you use the willow bark as it is digested and metabolized in the body differently. Thus, the natural product can decrease the possible side effects and why don't we use this? It's again about profits and pharmaceutical companies' 'power and dominance'. In general, I hope that more research and funding can be used for naturopathic practices as mother nature has a lot of gifts waiting for us to discover.

When it comes to believes, there are always two sides to the story. Thus being open-minded is important. People died using conventional medicine and people died utilizing naturopathic medicine as well. Just because you believe in the values of naturopathic medicine, it does not mean that you denied the benefits of conventional medicine. So please, don't use the word 'real' when it comes to conventional medicine. Never forget about your past, all of our ancestors has lived and survived before conventional medicine was developed. Naturopathic medicine is real as well. Why not try to make the best out of our long history instead of denying it? =)

1)Aspirin is just a concentrated form of the same substance in the willow bark. Your body digests both the same way. The only difference is the concentration. The willow bark would also increase ulcer rates, just not as much as commercial aspirin for the obvious reason of there being less active ingredient.

2) yeah, people die using conventional medicine. They don't die nearly as fast though and the survival rate for a wide variety of illnesses is far greater. naturopathy was used for hundreds of years, but when modern medicine came around it eradicated all sorts of illnesses that had been around for a very long time. That alone should be decent support for which one works better.

3) Yes, our ancestors used naturopathic medicines. And my, how they enjoyed living to the old age of 40, dieing of diarrhea and smallpox and polio. I am sure they also loved the horrible risks associated with child birthing. Quite frankly, that's not the part of the past I feel we should be embracing.

So what if people choose to take an alternative approach to their health? There's a lot about the body we do not know about, and these alternative medicinal approaches have been around for centuries longer than present day biomedicine, so they'd have to have work to some extent. I personally think we need to challenge Westernized approaches to health, and if people choose an different way of looking at things, then that's their right to do so.

I remember my grade 12 biology teacher made a really good point about herbal remedies. She said that some of these will do as they they, the problem is that they aren't regulated and so they do not have proper warning labels on them. She gave an example of a one (the name escapes me) which claims to give you energy. It does work, but it does so by raising your heart rate. So if you suffer from a heart condition this could be fatal.

When I was 15 I had scoliosis surgery. One of my moms friends thought I should try Rekie instead. With a 90 degree spinal curve I declined.

Originally Posted by coolmichy

When it comes to believes, there are always two sides to the story. Thus being open-minded is important.

Your understanding of what constitutes open-mindedness is highly flawed. An open mind that demands no evidence will let in an awful lot of rubbish.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI

Originally Posted by collinbf

I remember my grade 12 biology teacher made a really good point about herbal remedies. She said that some of these will do as they they, the problem is that they aren't regulated and so they do not have proper warning labels on them. She gave an example of a one (the name escapes me) which claims to give you energy. It does work, but it does so by raising your heart rate. So if you suffer from a heart condition this could be fatal.

When I was 15 I had scoliosis surgery. One of my moms friends thought I should try Rekie instead. With a 90 degree spinal curve I declined.

90 degrees? My knowledge of biology is limited By I imagine a person that is shaped like the letter "L". Something tells me this is wrong....


Anyways watch some penn and teller bullshit episodes.

Originally Posted by thedog123123

90 degrees? My knowledge of biology is limited By I imagine a person that is shaped like the letter "L". Something tells me this is wrong....


Anyways watch some penn and teller bullshit episodes.

lmgtfy
http://www.spineuniverse.com /profe...gree-scoliosis
Not the whole person, just the spinal column, sideways.

Originally Posted by thedog123123

90 degrees? My knowledge of biology is limited By I imagine a person that is shaped like the letter "L". Something tells me this is wrong....


Anyways watch some penn and teller bullshit episodes.

They use a type of measuring system to determine the angle of curvature. It has to do with the difference between two vertebrate.

My spine went down on an angle then formed a C shape at the bottom. All good now though.

Penn and Teller are awesome, and I've seen that episode it was great.