yeah those two courses are very easy especially P03. its 189 dollars per unit and p03 is 3 units and c03 is three units. that means tuition is about 1134 so the rest of that money goes to something else not sure what. i cant really say which is better , to go or not to, but there are about 800-900 engineers that didnt do the program this year and we all seem to be doing just fine. taking those courses will not drastically reduce your courseload.

Regarding co-op after first year, I wanted to take it precisely because I thought it would make me alot of money for the next year. My dad works at the local nuclear plant run by OPG, and he says the CO-OP students there make around $20 per hour.

I suppose it would be better to ask someone there, but do you think it is realistic that I could get in there after first year? If you know anyone taking co-op first year, what kind of co-op jobs do they get, and how much do regular summer jobs pay (none co-op) that you know of?

Also, you say your in an internship...Is that the same thing as a co-op?

I know....lots of questions...and I thank you for ur time in answering them

your co-op job after first year will not be the best because you most likely have no experience. once you get that first one the other good jobs will come.

Also first years out of mac are not specialized yet either which does not help getting a job out of first year, but every other year is right on par with everyone else. a lot of students in upper years do a 12 or 16 month internship instead of summer jobs.

If you've got someone to put a good word for you that might help you, however as neb21 said, usually the job isn't the greatest because of your lack of experience. You have to consider what you're looking for: are you looking for a job or a job in engineering.

After my first year I started in the process department of a car part manufacturer. I was there for about 4 weeks after which maintenance needed help and I was transfered there. By the 6th week there I was sweeping dust from the parking lot (yeah I know, WTF!). After 2 months (i.e. end of June) they laid off all the students and I ended up working construction for my then girlfriend's dad for the rest of the summer.

The point is: you could easily make $20/hour but don't expect too much in terms of how much practical engineering experience you're going to get. Again, I'm not trying to discourage you from trying, just trying to "manage expectations" as managers say.

Non-coop jobs pay anywhere from min wage to $20 or more. It all depends on what your luck is like. Jobs on campus pay, I believe, around $10/hour but don't quote me on that.

In terms of the co op vs internship, in "MacSpeak (trademark, all rights reserved lol)" when someone says coop they refer to 4 or 8 month work terms. Anything higher than that we unofficially classify as an internship. It's basically the same thing just longer.

Don't worry about the number of questions, keep'em coming because I'm sure you're not the only one that has them.

Some great discussion going on here.

As mentioned, co-op is usually pursued when you don't have work experience (you're fresh out of university with no full-time experience in your desired field). Thus, it's great to do a co-op or internship. However, if you do have related work experience (you've worked for a year or more either by taking time off school, full-time over a summer possibly, etc) then students pursue non-coop jobs because they pay higher and have more specialty/practical experience.

The salary for on-campus jobs depends on the position and who you're employed under.

Currently, starting positions in the MSU pay $8.75. Part-time management jobs are currently $10/hr. However, these may change over the summer due to some requests that have been put in.

Jobs through the university start at minimum wage as well, and some go up to $12 or 13/hr.

Just wondering if anyone has any personal experience with the leap program. I was looking at their website, and I like the fact that you get 6 out of your 37 credits before you even enter first year.

The price, however, is somewhat discouraging...there' s about $2600 not accounted for by tuition, $600 of that is for food, and Im assuming the rest must be for residence....but nearly $2000 per month seems like a helluva lot for residence.

Also, it seems like its kind of a camp thing....Im not so keen on the idea of there being councellors there, and I saw that anyone from grade 9 and up an attend (though they would not get credits).

Im hoping the graduating students (Grade 12s) at LEAP would be given a bit more freedom to experience what real university life is like, not the same old "Okay everyone, stick together, its activity time after classes! Don't wander away from the group!"

Im fine with bowling and movie nights like mentioned on the website....but Im still iffy about the whole camp thing...ive had bad experiences where Ive gone to summer programs and they just treat us like a bunch of ten year olds at day-camp.

This page especially makes me feel uncertain of the nature of this program:
http://leap.mcmaster.ca/parent_info.htm

"What happens if my son/daughter gets lost looking for class?"
Campers are to be dropped off immediately in front of the John Hodgins Engineering building

Come on....we're university students for gods sake!

Just so you know, I think you only get 2 credits... although it would be a pretty sweet deal if you could get 6.

Benefits of HEADSTART

• Earn two University Credit Courses in the summer

Sorry for bursting your bubble J-Met.

As far as I know, each course is worth 3 units (sorry, i meant units when I said credits ).

And as far as I know, for engineering 1 we need 37 units to graduate...so 6 units out of 37 might actually be noticable in terms of course load.

But Im sure someone from engineering can clarify this better...the litterature on the mac webiste from where i got these figures isn't crystal clear :S

I want to do the credits but not the camp. I'm not sure if I'm willing to spend an extra $3000 to go through some camp for grade 9s and finish credits on the side. Maybe it's just me, but I sense that this could perhaps be one of those money-making schemes universities set up... but I could be wrong.

I think Danny and neb21 mentioned something about the pro's and con's about taking it on the last page.

According to Danny

"1C03 and 1P03 are "easier" than the rest of your courses, however they do still take up a considerable amount of time. From what I recall, both courses have a presentation/design group work assignment which does take up a lot of time."

and neb21...

"i cant really say which is better , to go or not to, but there are about 800-900 engineers that didnt do the program this year and we all seem to be doing just fine. taking those courses will not drastically reduce your courseload."

I don't have any experience with the LEAP program but from the sounds of it they are giving you the full university experience (i.e. exhorbitant residence costs and babying you). It's true, $2000 per month is a lot but take a look at what you will be paying if you're staying in res first year. I think it's going to be close to that. In terms of babying you...yeah they will. They don't stop when you're a full time either.

I think the reason it's set up like a camp is because you are their responsibility (still) and since younger students can participate it's much easier to apply the same rule to everyone. I'm sure you will get a bit more freedom than the "kiddies" but I can't comment on how much.

As far as easing up your course load, taking the classes during the summer will give you more time during the year. It's not hard material, they're just the kind of courses that take up a lot of your time. Trust me when I tell you (even though you've probably heard it many times before) all your courses will take a lot of time. I think the rule of thumb is 3 hours study for each hour of lecture but I could be wrong. On top of that add 3 hours a week for labs in Physics and Chem, 3 hours of tutorial in each of those too. If you take P03 and C03 during the year you would have 3 hour labs and tutorials for them too.

As I suggested to Aestas, you can call and ask if you can do just the courses rather than doing the courses and staying in res too. There should be plenty of people looking to sublet their room for the summer so it should be pretty easy to find somewhere to stay. Not sure if you've joined the McMaster Facebook network but I would encourage you to do so. There are a few people looking for subletters.

Of course this brings up the issue of moving out into a strange house and then at the end of the summer moving into res and all that but that's a different story all together.

Another thing I can suggest is checking out the Engineering Experience Weekend in May. I'm not sure if you've received any literature on it yet. Here's where you can sign up http://www.eng.mcmaster.ca/prospective/tours.htm. Scroll down to Engineering Experience Weekend.

It takes place May 10-11 this year and the deadline to sign up is April 28th. A couple of years back I was a group leader for this and it was a lot of fun. It is like camp though (you're only there for a night). You get split up into groups, you watch some presentations related to the project then you get to work on it for a while. After that we gave you a tour of the campus and then headed to residence for some activities. The next day you present your project to faculty, staff and industry representatives (as well as parents and peers) and then you're off.

I actually just checked out the LEAP page and the the residence is optional.
http://leap.mcmaster.ca/courses_fees.htm

Two classes is noticable in terms of time...even one course is...

Unfortunately its a 1.75 hour commute each way to McMaster from my family home. Sub-renting a house sounds like a good idea, as it will save me more money, and will give me a better feeling of university life.

However....I dont think my parents will go for this

Originally Posted by J-Met

Unfortunately its a 1.75 hour commute each way to McMaster from my family home. Sub-renting a house sounds like a good idea, as it will save me more money, and will give me a better feeling of university life.

However....I dont think my parents will go for this

No harm in asking. Just state your case, emphasis the benefits