Since we say that students are a bad investment. Let's do some math.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/edu/edu02_0019a-eng.htm

Age groups Less than high school High school Trades College University
All age groups 20,833 28,038 34,670 36,785 57,495
High school avg: 28k
College 37k
Univ: 58K

Tax rate from
http://lsminsurance.ca/calculators/canada/income-tax

Tax on 28k = 3574
Tax on 37K = 5379
Tax on 58k = 11570

If a student can afford to college with osap, whereas he could not before hand. his net contribution in taxes over 40 years of work is
Tax(28)*40 = 142960$
Tax(37)*40 = 215160
Tax(58) = 460280

For every student that does OSAP and can go to further education, his net return will be either (215160-142960) = 72000 or (460280 - 142960) =~ 317000

About 30K of OSAP will net you 72000 to 317000 return in taxes. 30K being QUITE high.

In summary, think a little bit before you keep spewing BS.

(sorry for formatting/grammer/w.e, too lazy to fix it up)

I still insist there is no way that ANYONE who knows your position on government funding for their education, is being honest with how much they really like you... They more than likely just talk behind your back. Let's be realistic: You're position would have them hopeless for obtaining the level of education, and possibly some of the services they receive in life. You would prefer a party voted in such that their lying and spending went towards multi-million dollar fake lakes, "garden walls", the world's most expensive gazebos, in addition to much more, rather than their education (you've acknowledged that the Liberals would spend the tax dollars on services such as education already... So I'd rather not hear a response that says the Liberals would do the exact same thing as the Conservatives).

Originally Posted by BlakeM

Since we say that students are a bad investment. Let's do some math.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/edu/edu02_0019a-eng.htm

Age groups Less than high school High school Trades College University
All age groups 20,833 28,038 34,670 36,785 57,495
High school avg: 28k
College 37k
Univ: 58K

Tax rate from
http://lsminsurance.ca/calculators/canada/income-tax

Tax on 28k = 3574
Tax on 37K = 5379
Tax on 58k = 11570

If a student can afford to college with osap, whereas he could not before hand. his net contribution in taxes over 40 years of work is
Tax(28)*40 = 142960$
Tax(37)*40 = 215160
Tax(58) = 460280

For every student that does OSAP and can go to further education, his net return will be either (215160-142960) = 72000 or (460280 - 142960) =~ 317000

About 30K of OSAP will net you 72000 to 317000 return in taxes. 30K being QUITE high.

In summary, think a little bit before you keep spewing BS.

(sorry for formatting/grammer/w.e, too lazy to fix it up)

People do realize that osap is a loan right the government gets their money back. Furthermore I remember hearing that osap doesn't come from people's taxes.

We're talking about the Liberal's plan to give students 4K to go to University though.

And I'm not totally sure what you've heard is right (I could be wrong), but the OSAP fund came from somewhere. If it's government run, they're also paying to maintain that program.

Fair enough. Just wondering if you guys heard the news that if you can't pay back soap within 7-9 years after your education has finished, then you get a break in the form of taking out the interest, cutting your payment in half, or altogether taking it out. It was around January when it was a story on he news. It was mainly for doctors, whose loans were obviously very high. When doing more research, students from 92-99 had their loans forgiven given that they graduated. However, the government website did not state whether they got jobs and if they were still living in Canada. Any thoughts?

Originally Posted by BlakeM

Since we say that students are a bad investment. Let's do some math.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/edu/edu02_0019a-eng.htm

Age groups Less than high school High school Trades College University
All age groups 20,833 28,038 34,670 36,785 57,495
High school avg: 28k
College 37k
Univ: 58K

Tax rate from
http://lsminsurance.ca/calculators/canada/income-tax

Tax on 28k = 3574
Tax on 37K = 5379
Tax on 58k = 11570

If a student can afford to college with osap, whereas he could not before hand. his net contribution in taxes over 40 years of work is
Tax(28)*40 = 142960$
Tax(37)*40 = 215160
Tax(58) = 460280

For every student that does OSAP and can go to further education, his net return will be either (215160-142960) = 72000 or (460280 - 142960) =~ 317000

About 30K of OSAP will net you 72000 to 317000 return in taxes. 30K being QUITE high.

In summary, think a little bit before you keep spewing BS.

(sorry for formatting/grammer/w.e, too lazy to fix it up)

While OSAP does suck, remember OSAP is a LOAN. Just like you get a loan from the bank, you get a loan from your government. The government needs to make money off people too, thats why we pay taxes. OSAP is not ideal, but it helps students for what it's meant for. Liberals won't change anything, they will just give out more OSAP loans and it turn more students will have to pay it back.

Originally Posted by mike_302

And yet the past 8 consecutive years of a Liberal government had a surplus, while we are currently running a deficit by "The Harper Government". Granted, there was a recession, but they have not proved any ability to run a surplus...

Well if there was a recession its going to take a while to have a surplus. Do you want Harper to pull on out of his @$$. Its easy to have a surplus when the economy is booming, our economy sucks. Manufacturing sector is dead, and we still don't have alternatives. Those green jobs are failing to do anything, because thats all a bunch of bs.

Originally Posted by Lois

I agree on the laziness, but it's really not reason to invalidate the vote.

http://www.elections.ca/content.aspx...dir=pre&lang=e

While the initiative at the University of Guelph was not pre-authorized by the Chief Electoral Officer, the Canada Elections Act provides that electors may apply for and vote by special ballot. A special ballot coordinator, appointed by the local returning officer, oversaw the activities at the University of Guelph. All information at our disposal indicates that the votes were cast in a manner that respects the Canada Elections Act and are valid.

Did you expect Elections Canada to come out and say they screwed up by allowing voting booths at Guelph? And if everyting was set up properly, why did Elections Canada say no more of those same booths are allowed at other universities? Because Guelph demonstarted that they are just bunch of whiny students who can't stay impartial during something very important and Elections Canada did not montior the voting correctly. Once again universties do not need those booths in the first place. Guelph is not exactly in the middle of nowhere. Proves that students wll only patricipate in something thats easy and right outside their doorstep.

Guelph is minutes from Kitchener/Cambridge, and surrounded by smaller towns... I'm not sure which Guelph you're thinking of, but the one that the University belongs to has exploded in size. I should also note that Elections Canada admitted that they did not actually authorize the ballot box, so your foot's in your mouth on that one... Good call.

Although it was not PRE-authorized, it was decided upon further investigation that the station was run according to the rules (it's not like some students taped together a box and made papers with squares on it... Elections Canada still ran the station) and the votes are being counted.

Additionally, Harper was voted in as of 2005. FYI: He hasn't run a surplus since. Point to take away: This Conservative mind-set that "Liberals are tax and spend and will blow all of our money" is absolutely unfounded, and in fact, history shows the opposite.

Careful. You're going to get foot-in-mouth disease if you keep saying stuff just because you feel it must be true.

Originally Posted by mike_302

Guelph is minutes from Kitchener/Cambridge, and surrounded by smaller towns... I'm not sure which Guelph you're thinking of, but the one that the University belongs to has exploded in size. I should also not that Elections Canada DID admit that they did not actually authorize the ballot box, so your foot's in your mouth on that one... Good call.

Although it was not PRE-authorized, it was decided upon further investigation that the station was run according to the rules (it's not like some students taped together a box and made papers with squares on it... Elections Canada still ran the station) and the votes are being counted.

Additionally, Harper was voted in as of 2005. FYI: He hasn't run a surplus since. Point to take away: This Conservative mind-set that "Liberals are tax and spend and will blow all of our money" is absolutely unfounded, and in fact, history shows the opposite.

Careful. You're going to get foot-in-mouth disease if you keep saying stuff just because you feel it must be true.

I know where Guelph is My point is that we didn't need to have a voting station on that campus because students are not professional enough to run it without remaining impartial.
Also we had a surplus in 2006, 2007 and in 2008 things went to hell.

Again. Students don't run it. It's run by Elections Canada, including what's called a "returning officer", who runs every other election in the area.

To provide answers to some of the W's:

Why did they cancel it? "in a bid to prevent similar headaches, Elections Canada has outlawed similar efforts across the country."

What's the reason for these special ballot boxes anyways?
"a potentially easy way for students to vote early during their busy final exam period."
"a system used for groups that are often underrepresented on election day"

They choose to be under represented. If they can travel long distances for other unimportant pass times, extra curricular, etc. then they can travel to vote. It gives a bad name to the rest of us who actually travel to vote.

They actually wouldn't be traveling very far to go vote, assuming they lived in Guelph in the summer. The Special Ballot is an attempt to make voting convenient for those who have exams during the Advanced Polls (I feel for those students...) and for those who will likely be moving back home during the first few days of May because their lease is up, or else going on vacation afterwards...

Your Conservative views are very much: "If I can do it, he/she can too, no if's and's or but's about it. Screw you if you can't do what I can: You don't even deserve an opportunity to be considered part of Canada (including voting, education, and public services) because you would make the rest of us look bad".

There! {claps hand in accomplishment} I think I've summarized the difference pretty darn well.

Originally Posted by mike_302

Again. Students don't run it. It's run by Elections Canada, including what's called a "returning officer", who runs every other election in the area.

To provide answers to some of the W's:

Why did they cancel it? "in a bid to prevent similar headaches, Elections Canada has outlawed similar efforts across the country."

What's the reason for these special ballot boxes anyways?
"a potentially easy way for students to vote early during their busy final exam period."
"a system used for groups that are often underrepresented on election day"

Election is on May 2nd, I don't know how many schools have exams at that point but ok. Even if students have exams, taking an hour out of your day will not make you fail an exam.
Students choose to be underrepresented, in Hamilton Mac students get a free bus pass. I'm sure getting on a bus to a local school with voting stations is not hard.

As someone said before: You two have very one-tracked minds... "In Hamilton". Not everyone is in Hamilton.

Not everyone is done exams when the Advanced polls come out.

Once again, you're consistent with the "If I can do it, he/she can too, no if's and's or but's about it." attitude.

Reality check: Some people will go home after May 1st, and frankly: I won't want to do a thing for the next week. If I wasn't going to be staying in Hamilton anyways, I'd have to get a vehicle to drive into town (not everyone has the extra vehicle lying around). The special ballot was a way to get those voters out, in a controlled, sanctioned manner. Granted, the Guelph University Special Ballot was not PRE-AUTHORIZED, but it was run in accordance with the law otherwise, hence the ballots are being counted.

If I get anymore arguments from you that sound like: "If I can do it, everyone else can too!", I'm just going to respond with that statement until it gets through to you that the whole world doesn't revolve around you, and it isn't always about the privileges you have. Unfortunately for the rest of us, I think it takes a large, life-changing event/revelation to get that point across so you're going to be stuck with that unfortunate mindset for a while.