Originally Posted by DannyV

Look at where the money comes from. Half from TAing (so a student job) and half from a grant from his prof (let's call this bursaries / scholarships)

I'm just guessing, but you need pretty good grades to get into grad school and to become a TA, which makes getting bursaries and scholarships a lot easier.

I read somewhere that some TAs get $15,000 a year from TAing. Is this true?

Even so. That's A LOT of money. I've never heard of a student who needed that kind of money..

Well they're expecting to make a comfortable living from their TAships and some of them (from the comments posted on these threads) expect to be able to start a family and buy houses on the money they make as TAs.

So to answer your point about why a student would "need" that kid of money, see above.

As to whether it is a reasonable expectation, I and others have time and again pointed out that it is quite far from reasonable.

Also, from reading between the lines, I gathered that they want to be paid more for the research they do. While it hasn't been stated straight out, many commenters have hinted at it by complaining that they have to do research as well.

EDIT: Just to add, as an undergrad I did make quite a bit while on my internship, however that was 16 months of 40+ hours of work per week which is not comparable to their position

you have to admit that a cap on Lab and Tutorial sizes would be good.

Originally Posted by andrew22

you have to admit that a cap on Lab and Tutorial sizes would be good.

Not necessarily. There are certain "tutorials" that are designed to act as supplementary lectures (but are classified as tutorials), and there are courses that are based on models such as these.

A blanket policy change isn't the solution (esp. since many tutorials/labs are running fine and actually don't need a cap). The proper solution would be to make changes on a case-by-case basis.

Originally Posted by Taunton

Not necessarily. There are certain "tutorials" that are designed to act as supplementary lectures (but are classified as tutorials), and there are courses that are based on models such as these.

A blanket policy change isn't the solution (esp. since many tutorials/labs are running fine and actually don't need a cap). The proper solution would be to make changes on a case-by-case basis.

of course, that goes without saying


btw wanna join my election team this year taunton?

(hopefully I can get jenny holzer involved also)

TA's don't make 15, 000 a year TAing. We make about 9,000 a year from TAships at Mac. The rest of the money comes from internal scholarships. Overall, the point of the package is to entice grad students to come to Mac.

We aren't allowed to work more than 10 hours/week so we can't make money elsewhere unless we're willing to risk our scholarship at McMaster.

Being a grad student is supposed to be treated like a job. There was (at least for me) a mindset change that occurred between undergrad and grad and again between my Masters and my PhD.

Out of however much money a grad student gets (it's department dependent what the scholarship amounts to) we pay our tuition (about 6000), pay rent to live in Hamilton full time, get food, attend conferences, pay bills, and just generally try to live our lives.

A lot of my money goes into professional development stuff so that I can get a decent job at the end of all this.

Again it's worth re-iterating that CUPE isn't arguing for a wage increase for Grad TA's.

But the basic point of all this is to say, even if we didn't need the money that we get, McMaster still needs to give it one way or another to be competitive with other universities (for example, Queen's TAs get paid way less but get a whole lot more in scholarship to make the overall amount about the same) .

A huge part of attracting grad students is the financial package the institution offers and increasing the grad to undergrad ratio is a huge part of McMaster's plan to increase in prestige and put us in the same category as U of T and other big research intensive schools. Furthermore, McMaster receives more money from the government for grad students than for undergrads and currently, there's a huge push from the government to increase graduate enrollment. If your financial package isn't competitive, you can't attract the same quality grad students. If you don't attract quality grad students and a fair number of them, you just can't compete with the other schools (and of course won't have enough TA's for the undergrad courses).

Sorry if this double posts, computer is wonky.

When a factory goes on strike, the employer is affected almost immediately because production stops and there is no new product to be sold. With the TAs going on strike, there is no product, but people have still paid the employer as if there was. It puts the university in a position to not care whatsoever. Imagine if you owned a car plant and you could shut the plant down and people still paid you money as if you had made cars. That being said if it lasts too long the university will be hurt; I understand that.

I dont support the university. Universities dont care about students as long as the money is paid. Most schools actually refer to students as "Bums in seats". All that being said, I support the TAs even less. None of my TAs have been good, and "donkey show" is a fair description of the labs/tutorials.

The TAs are holding my education hostage. The university doesnt care if I learn as long as I paid, so it isnt a very good hostage. I have already paid, and I wont get that money back. I realize as a first year my education doesnt matter. You can tell from how they run the classes they try to cram as many people into a small space, automate everything they can, reduce their costs while we pay more and more every year. Now the TAs are taking another chunk of my "education" away.

This strike only hurts students and accomplishes little. Unions today cause more problems then they solve. I would love to counter-picket if I had the free time and extra money to prepare a good sign.

Thanks to the TAs and the Unions for showing that when you dont get what you want the first thing you think to do is put a knife to my throat. I realize there are issues to be dealt with here, it just really sucks being the innocent bystander you took hostage to get what you want.

(if it goes on long enough and anyone decides to sue the school for tuition, make sure to post details on how to be part of the class action suit here, someone's parent must be a lawyer)

I doubt this strike will last long. It's more of a joke than anything else at the moment.

Just a side question here: does anyone know between what hours they are picketing? I had to go off campus around 10:00pm tonight to a 24/h pharmacy and there was nobody out. I'd also like to know in case I leave campus this weekend on Thursday like I normally do. Is there like a prime time for traffic to come into Mac?

Originally Posted by Melpomene

Just a side question here: does anyone know between what hours they are picketing? I had to go off campus around 10:00pm tonight to a 24/h pharmacy and there was nobody out. I'd also like to know in case I leave campus this weekend on Thursday like I normally do. Is there like a prime time for traffic to come into Mac?

http://www.macinsiders.com/showthread.php?t=2473 3

Originally Posted by Rossclot

(if it goes on long enough and anyone decides to sue the school for tuition, make sure to post details on how to be part of the class action suit here, someone's parent must be a lawyer)

Seems unlikely, they tried it at York and I think it went nowhere.

While I respect that the union has a problem the lack of democratic process is disappointing. Also, its disappointing that say I was trying to deliver medicine to a sick sibling in Bates residence for example, I would be unable to do so in a prompt manner because of their picket (as an example). This is one of the issues I have with picketing in general when you're at a university or something; it can seriously cause a lot of problems tat you wouldn't think of off the bat.

As well, to those who treat TAship as their full time, family-supporting job, I question your thought processes. I know how many hours you work and how much you get paid as I'm a TA myself; that's no way to try and support anyone but yourself.

Plus, c'mon, they stopped the Willy Dog stand coming into campus today and made it wait and all. That's just disappointing.

Originally Posted by batman

Plus, c'mon, they stopped the Willy Dog stand coming into campus today and made it wait and all. That's just disappointing.

Now they've gone too far.

Originally Posted by batman

Seems unlikely, they tried it at York and I think it went nowhere.

As far as I know, the case is ongoing. Cases like these can take a long time.

new signs are up..3rd floor Mary Keyes...Facing the Cootes entrance...CUPE gets a taste of some anti signage!..haha enjoy

If you want you can call by-law services to issue a noise complaint. Under the noise by-law (03-020) for the City of Hamilton

No person shall emit or cause or permit the emission of sound resulting from the
following which sound is clearly audible at a Point of Reception:
1) The operation of any electronic device or group of connected electronic devices
incorporating one or more loudspeakers or other electro-mechanical
transducers, and intended for the production, reproduction or amplification of
sound.

The way I understand it is you can complain about music if it is being played in a different property from yours. I find it pretty inconsiderate that they will not turn down the music when asked politely, you would think they would like the same thing if the situation was reversed.