Also, to anyone knowledgeable: what will happen to WESTDALE once this move happens, will we still be able to get there by bus? if so how???

Originally Posted by Taunton

It makes everything less efficient. It's not laziness, it's a requirement for speed and efficiency.

I thought the point of moving the buses of campus was the much greater efficiency. If they don't need to go through campus they will save on fuel (which is environmentally and financially sound) as well as time. If they aren't running through campus it means that students don't need to look out for buses which means we can get to class faster (since without the bus traffic it means more walking on the roads, which means less congested sidewalks).

I mean, I don't take the bus to or from school, so I might be missing something important. But it makes pretty good sense to me...

In terms of walking, I walk 20 minutes, maybe just a bit less. There is no way that people should need to take a bus for that distance. (I'm looking at you Cheri, espescially since your shoes are like a thousand times more padded than mine).

Originally Posted by A.Marlowe

I thought the point of moving the buses of campus was the much greater efficiency. If they don't need to go through campus they will save on fuel (which is environmentally and financially sound) as well as time. If they aren't running through campus it means that students don't need to look out for buses which means we can get to class faster (since without the bus traffic it means more walking on the roads, which means less congested sidewalks).

I mean, I don't take the bus to or from school, so I might be missing something important. But it makes pretty good sense to me...

In terms of walking, I walk 20 minutes, maybe just a bit less. There is no way that people should need to take a bus for that distance. (I'm looking at you Cheri, espescially since your shoes are like a thousand times more padded than mine).

one counter-argument: I don't spend too much time looking out for busses, what about you? I think in total this year, I've spent about max 1 minute looking for a bus in total, a lot less than it saved me in walking. In general, the sidewalks are allright, I can pass on the grass.

Originally Posted by adrian

A cleverer response from me(that last one was pretty kneejerk to the idiotic comment): You haven't provided any quantification of how much help the bus is to students. I mean, I already know that the hit by a bus thing is a *rare* occurrence since otherwise this move wouldn't have taken so long(the benefits of not moving>risks till 2010 somehow), but think of how many people are taking the bus. I've taken pictures before and I will take them again...there are CROWDS of people. In fact, last year I waited >1hour to get on a bus because they were so packed with students(not something you'd know having walked all these years). Now you will tell those students to walk to their class, in -20 weather(in winter). If it doesn't make them late, it will at least take some time for their bodies to return to normal so their brain can learn. Even in summer, you will have people coming in distracted because of the heat. Maybe Rambo can do learning after walking in heat/freezing weather, but we are human beings.

Many people who end up taking the bus, and stuffing it so full of people, end up taking the bus to Westdale/Sterling. That's really not fair to people who need the bus because they live downtown or up the mountain.

...

I'm quite curious. Whereabouts is your student house? If you've waited over an hour for a bus, it might be wiser to just walk to save time. That's what I did after night classes. With a proper jacket, mitts, gloves, and a hood/hat, walking is actually much warmer than waiting at a bus stop.

Originally Posted by Jay

I absolutely adore the excuse of "OH, I'm too busy with school/work/ECs that I can't spend 10 minutes to do X. But I'm going to spend Y number of hours going out with friends, watching TV, surfing the internet, etc."

That's hardly valid. I make myself available for work 30 minutes after my final class of the day. That means I need to get on a bus ASAP after class ends.

Planning my social life goes around everything else. It's a necessity that the buses be on my doorstep after class. I actually don't have ten minutes to waste.

Originally Posted by adrian

one counter-argument: I don't spend too much time looking out for busses, what about you? I think in total this year, I've spent about max 1 minute looking for a bus in total, a lot less than it saved me in walking. In general, the sidewalks are allright, I can pass on the grass.

I think you misunderstood my point, I meant that pedestrians don't need to be on the lookout for the bus, so they can use the road. Not how long it takes to find a bus. I don't really like passing on the grass, I'll always use the road at least to pass- and in the winter I use it more than the sidewalk. I just really do not like getting my feet wet (I don't wear boots). But if we could make Mac a truly pedestrian campus (unfeasible because of supply trucks though) I would be one happy camper.

Originally Posted by Taunton

That's hardly valid. I make myself available for work 30 minutes after my final class of the day. That means I need to get on a bus ASAP after class ends.

Planning my social life goes around everything else. It's a necessity that the buses be on my doorstep after class. I actually don't have ten minutes to waste.

Yet, you have time to spare on MI? Nice try.

Last year I had half an hour to get to my volunteer placement at Wellington/Barton and I made it on time. Diverting the bus around campus may actually be beneficial depending on where you work. It's actually easier/faster to get to places if the bus doesn't stop at Westdale/Sterling.

Wow, Jay, lay off the guy. If he has work after classes, he has work after classes - that he has to get to on time no matter what - not like classes where you can come into late and no one will care.

Originally Posted by feonateresa

Wow, Jay, lay off the guy. If he has work after classes, he has work after classes - that he has to get to on time no matter what - not like classes where you can come into late and no one will care.

I'm just saying, I highly doubt that walking 5 minutes (that would be at a snail's pace... 2 minutes would be a more appropriate estimate) from Mills or LSB to the Hospital bus stop will prevent him from getting to work on time. The bus service after classes is very frequent, especially at the 0:20-0:35 points. Often there are about 5 Buses (51, 5A, 5C) that go through campus that would be technically diverted and that doesn't even include the Bee-line.

I had a meeting that ended at 3:30 (not 3:20, like classes) every week and I volunteered at 4:00 downtown. I managed to make it on time, granted, I had to run to catch buses and I may have left the meetings a couple of minutes early (5 minutes), but I did what I had to in order to ensure that I made it to my placement on time. If it's going to take 2 minutes longer to walk to the bus stop, then leave class 2 minutes earlier and beat the rush/slow down at the doors. It's all about time-management and prioritizing.

edit:

And, anyone who takes the bus regularly, should know that at peak times (after classes) if you plan on going Eastbound you can't take the Mills bus stop and even the LSB bus stop ends up being full. Many people end up walking towards the Emerson stop to guarantee themselves a spot on the bus. The same applies to those going Westbound, especially since service isn't as frequent (no 1A). It's not about picking the stop that's closest to your classes.

Well, being one of the only people on here old enough to actually remember why they got rid of the shuttle-bus-around-campus service (That's right, 4 or 5 years back the shuttle bus actually used to ride around campus dropping people off in various places), I have to disagree that it was to reduce accidents.

Mac may be moving toward a 'pedestrian' university status now (which I think is kind of an odd thing to strive toward, but whatever I could use the exercise), but that doesn't mean things which occurred years ago for financial reasons can be grouped under that heading.

Quite frankly, the MSU didn't wanna spend that much money on it (I dunno, I guess they wanted to build half an engineering building or something). I remember reading all about it during the MSU elections...saying it's for 'safety' is as sleazy as calling a tax-hike a 'necessary refund adjustment.' (~Simpsons)

If Mac really wanted to divert the busses from passing through Mac for safety reasons, then they would run as close as possible without going through the foot-traffic...namely down Sterling, and up beside the Hospital, exitting onto Main. That won't be the case though, since that will still cost Mac some hard earned dough (making a deal with the HSR)...the busses will end up turning onto Main on like, Dundurn....and since this is what's happening I agree with the notion that Mac is merely 'washing its hands of the situation.' It's hard for me to see safety as the priority...

EDIT: I also just wanted to note...personally, I commute for an hour to an hour and a half (by city bus, not by fancy GO bus :p). If it already takes me an hour...why would I want to walk up that extra distance and lose my 'edge' or 'guaranteed seat'? Especially after night classes, when busses run very infrequently.

Originally Posted by ViktorVaughn

So your entire argument is based on an unfounded piece of info that you pulled out of your butt which is "probably" true.

Well, there are probably more annual alien abductions on campus than there are students, so we should possibly all go and buy tinfoil hats.

It seemed more likely that the large numbers of bicycles that use the campus (a number in which I am included) being so intimately involved with the pedestrians in their surroundings (ridden on foot paths and sidewalks as does happen frequently, for example) would lead to an accident as compared to a much smaller number of busses whose paths interact with pedestrians directly less than 10 times (crosswalks).

Aliens on the other hand? Now who's being idiotic.

Originally Posted by Mowicz

Mac may be moving toward a 'pedestrian' university status now (which I think is kind of an odd thing to strive toward, but whatever I could use the exercise), but that doesn't mean things which occurred years ago for financial reasons can be grouped under that heading.

If you're talking about my comment, you'll notice that I didn't exactly group anything under a heading. I compared the two things and said that one reminds of the other in that the true reasons behind them are not what are being presented to the student body. McMaster was ticked off by Westdale residents making a stink about construction traffic and as a result it was re-routed. I did imply that it was my (and others') idea that a big part of the bus re-routing was retaliation.

So again, not under the same "heading" but similar in that the real reasons for the changes are not (or may not be being) put forward honestly. Instead, more appealing reasons are given, which while being in some respect valid are not key (and therefore misleading).

And again, has anyone cited incident rates that would have prompted the changes? I know of one student who was hit. One. Out of 21 000 students and who knows how many staff, faculty, and others who use the campus. There may be more, but not enough to cause the type of concern that such a huge and very expensive set of changes that affect so very many people in a negative way (be it to a great degree or not).

Originally Posted by McIntyre

This is definitely something we can send a BIIIG thank you to the MSU Board of Directors, especially VP Admin Andrew Richardson who has spent the last while working with the HSR to try to improve the service available to students! It was so nice seeing the larger buses back on the route! Thanks!

Is the MSU taking credit for the sun raising this morning? Cause they have just as much to do with the new buses appearing as the MSU does with the sun raising.

The new buses are part of a large multi-city bulk purchase funded in large part by Metrolinx.

The purchase of these buses was announced and the contract signed long before any of the current MSU executive and SRA members were involved in student politics.

Originally Posted by lawleypop

You mean the buses that have that middle thing that makes them way longer? I thought there were already buses like that. Or is it specifically for the buses that go to McMaster. I've only taken the 5 to delaware bus so far this year. (it takes me to ESM, metros, and fortinos xD)

You will see more of the articulated buses in the next few weeks.

The ones on the road presently are new purchases and just entered service. The HSR had to take the articulated buses they purchased last year off the road due to a maintenance issue.

New Flyer failed to write in the manuals for the buses that the centre joints need constant greasing. The HSR is presently in the process of repairing damage to those buses caused by a lack of lubrucation in the centre joints. Once they have the 08s repaired; they'll be able to place more articulated buses on the road.

In all likelyhood, they'll be placed on the 1A road to address overcrowding between Nash Rd and Wentworth in the east end.

Originally Posted by fullsmash26

Is the MSU taking credit for the sun raising this morning? Cause they have just as much to do with the new buses appearing as the MSU does with the sun raising.

The new buses are part of a large multi-city bulk purchase funded in large part by Metrolinx.

The purchase of these buses was announced and the contract signed long before any of the current MSU executive and SRA members were involved in student politics.

Andrew Richardson has been working with HSR for over a year, and access to bus space has been just one issue he's been dealing with. There may be other factors involved with the new bus purchases but actually placing the new buses on appropriate routes involved lobbying, and that is where the MSU has had influence.